Panther defense most conservative in the league.

[Harbingers]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So basically the Detroit game was an anomaly and it looks like Snow was correct to blitz less and that fans shouldn't form opinions off of one game.

Lets be honest, for the majority of uneducated fans blitzing more is always the answer to them, and honestly when coaches talk about blitzing more it is just to appease those very same fans.

 

This has nothing to do with blitzing less or more. This has to do with rushing the normal 4 and not playing the shitty 3-3-5 soft zone that results in guaranteed points for the opponent.

[AU-panther]

18 hours ago, panthers55 said:

This article suggests we play zone specifically cover 3 much of the time and blitz among the fewest times of any team.

 

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/02/panthers-coverage-rates-conservative-phil-snow/amp/

There is some conversation that it is personnel but how can we can blitz a lot against detroit and shut them out but with essentially the same guys give up tons of yards and points to the Vikings.  Plus I heard Rhule say if Snow had to replay the game against the Vikings again he would have blitzed more. 

If it was all personnel than when you blitzed you would get poorer results not better ones and you wouldn't change your scheme if you didn't have the personnel to do both.

 

No this just convinces me even more that Snow's preferred scheme doesn't work in the pros and he will need to bring more pressure and put more guys on the line of scrimmage to confuse the blocking protections like we did against Detroit. The 3-3-5 is the old prevent defense which prevents you from winning.

Ron ran a lot of Tampa-2,which is a lot like cover 3, the MLB takes the deep middle third.  Take a 4-2-5 (base is the exception, not the rule in todays NFL) stand up one of the ends (Burns) and you basically have a 3-3-5.  How much you pressure isn't based on your alignment, its how often you choose to blitz, and based on the stats Kungfoodude posted most QBs we have played this year have played worse when we blitzed less.

Going into this season, based on the personnel we had, I fully expected us to to bottom 10 in defense, if not bottom 5, regardless of what defense we ran.  As of right now were are 15th in points allowed, that is surprising.

I would guess we have more snaps played by rookies than any team in the league on defense and we are 6th in cap spending on the defense in the league.

If anything Snow has earned credit for the job he has done, but ultimately we will have a better idea of him as a DC after next season.

 

 

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So basically the Detroit game was an anomaly and it looks like Snow was correct to blitz less and that fans shouldn't form opinions off of one game.

Lets be honest, for the majority of uneducated fans blitzing more is always the answer to them, and honestly when coaches talk about blitzing more it is just to appease those very same fans.

 

Not sure all that can be determined by that simple chart. First of all the differences aren't that extreme. We blitz among the least amount of teams so what seems like a lot of difference isn't. Secondly it doesn't distinguish between when we blitz or even run versus pass blitz. If you blitz 3 times in your redzone the seven times they get there because they are wearing you out all day between the 20s with your weak zone you look like you are really aggressive with 21 blitzes but are you???  Without context and situation, these tables  are very limited. And it would appear that your blitzing isn't effective but is skewed by situation and circumstance. You didn't blitz until it was obvious and you had less choice due to a poor scheme.

[Mr. Scot]

Blitzing is a philosophical thing. Heaven knows there have been defensive coaches that absolutely loved it, but you needed to have great cover DBs to make it work.

But then you saw Dick LeBeau start using blitz schemes with zone coverage behind it. The Steelers lived off that for years.

Jim Johnson figured out how to use it with a 4-3 alignment. That concept got passed down to an old friend of ours named Ron Rivera, and he used it here.

[pantherj]

Let's not jump the gun on Moton leaving because the internet thinks it might happen.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, pantherj said:

Let's not jump the gun on Moton leaving because the internet thinks it might happen.

I don't give a sh-t with the Internet thinks.

I listen very intently to what guys with inside knowledge like Zack and Joe think.

[Varking]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I don't give a sh-t with the Internet thinks.

I listen very intently to what guys with inside knowledge like Zack and Joe think.

What kind of compensation pick do we get for a guy like Moton leaving?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Varking said:

What kind of compensation pick do we get for a guy like Moton leaving?

Ask St Bugs. He and some others know the comp pick stuff way better than I do.

[AU-panther]

39 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not sure all that can be determined by that simple chart. First of all the differences aren't that extreme. We blitz among the least amount of teams so what seems like a lot of difference isn't. Secondly it doesn't distinguish between when we blitz or even run versus pass blitz. If you blitz 3 times in your redzone the seven times they get there because they are wearing you out all day between the 20s with your weak zone you look like you are really aggressive with 21 blitzes but are you???  Without context and situation, these tables  are very limited. And it would appear that your blitzing isn't effective but is skewed by situation and circumstance. You didn't blitz until it was obvious and you had less choice due to a poor scheme.

Forming an opinion off of one game is a lot more limited than that table.

 

[AU-panther]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't give a sh-t with the Internet thinks.

I listen very intently to what guys with inside knowledge like Zack and Joe think.

But how often do those guys put out info that the team wants them to put out, either true or a bit of a smokescreen for leverage.

25 minutes ago, Varking said:

What kind of compensation pick do we get for a guy like Moton leaving?

 

Probably a 3rd, but that is only if we have a net loss in free agency.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, AU-panther said:

But how often do those guys put out info that the team wants them to put out, either true or a bit of a smokescreen for leverage.

They're definitely not team mouthpieces.

Team spokesmen wouldn't be critical of the team. Neither of them is shy about doing that when they feel it's warranted.

[kungfoodude]

47 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not sure all that can be determined by that simple chart. First of all the differences aren't that extreme. We blitz among the least amount of teams so what seems like a lot of difference isn't. Secondly it doesn't distinguish between when we blitz or even run versus pass blitz. If you blitz 3 times in your redzone the seven times they get there because they are wearing you out all day between the 20s with your weak zone you look like you are really aggressive with 21 blitzes but are you???  Without context and situation, these tables  are very limited. And it would appear that your blitzing isn't effective but is skewed by situation and circumstance. You didn't blitz until it was obvious and you had less choice due to a poor scheme.

Situational stats would give better information but there aren't good resources for those stats that I am aware of.

[AU-panther]

53 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

This has nothing to do with blitzing less or more. This has to do with rushing the normal 4 and not playing the shitty 3-3-5 soft zone that results in guaranteed points for the opponent.

No, the original post to this thread talked exactly about blitzing more or less. Weather you are playing a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 you can still blitz the same amount.  People are getting to caught up in formations.

And from the chart that Kungfoodude created, opposing QBs actually played worse when we blitzed less, so maybe our answer isn't as easy as just "blitzing more".   So you are assuming if we blitzed more other teams would score less?  Exactly what are you basing that on?  I doubt you have anything concrete to back that up.  At least Kungfoodude is presenting facts to help people form an opinion.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

No, the original post to this thread talked exactly about blitzing more or less. Weather you are playing a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 you can still blitz the same amount.  People are getting to caught up in formations.

And from the chart that Kungfoodude created, opposing QBs actually played worse when we blitzed less, so maybe our answer isn't as easy as just "blitzing more".   So you are assuming if we blitzed more other teams would score less?  Exactly what are you basing that on?  I doubt you have anything concrete to back that up.  At least Kungfoodude is presenting facts to help people form an opinion.

Yeah, I had the thought while I was debating with Snake that maybe we would see a clear trend in the data on our performances being better when we blitzed more but the OVERALL data doesn't really conclusively show that. 

As panthers55 pointed out, it would be nice to have some very detailed situational data available so we might be able to see how we do in specific scenarios. I'd like to know if we are blitzing predominantly on 3rd long, 1st down, etc, etc. What areas of the field, how do we compare to the league averages, QB rating when we get pressure on a QB, etc.