DJ Moore graded out as the 24th best WR according to PFF

[top dawg]

Just now, GoobyPls said:

How is it apple and oranges???? Teams look for every advantage. Teams don’t lean on pff.

PFF is the best and most extensive NFL metrics company out there in regards to grading players. They may not "lean on it", but as a whole, the NFL "leans" on PFF more than other services.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Alright tell me what PFF graded DJ on this specific play, and why?

 

 

With a half decent QB...

[GoobyPls]

4 minutes ago, top dawg said:

PFF is the best and most extensive NFL metrics company out there in regards to grading players. They may not "lean on it", but as a whole, the NFL "leans" on PFF more than other services.

First off no it’s not, and according to who?????

Teams have their own analytics department, who watch a hell of a lot more tape than pff.

Tell me how pff how is more qualified than Warren Sharp, or QBr, next gen, Cian Fahey, pro football reference, football outsiders ext...

Cause Colinsworth got behind them and gave them the media boost? Is that why?

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

won't every happen 

There are a lot of people on this board who try to act cool by bashing PFF, but none of them have a better option.

Exactly. All grading systems will have fallacies, period. I’m all for a better grading system, but PFF haters don’t actually seem to know of any and complaining is easier.

[AU-panther]

30 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Alright tell me what PFF graded DJ on this specific play, and why?

 

 

The same as they would to any other receiver doing the same thing.  That is what makes their grading system superior to the so called eye test that fans only apply to their own player of which they really only apply when the ball is involved.

 

[GoobyPls]

7 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

The same as they would to any other receiver doing the same thing.  That is what makes their grading system superior to the so called eye test that fans only apply to their own player of which they really only apply when the ball is involved.

 

What’s the grade????

This has nothing to do with eye test, that’s a 70 yard TD with Rodgers throwing it to Moore.

 

And since your apparently a pff subscribers did Adams get a higher grade on this play where all he did was run straight with little separation but Rodgers threw a perfect pass. Than Moore did on this play where he had to come back for the ball even though he had his man beat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AU-panther]

32 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

The problem with a lot of people is that they  don’t understand or watch football and lean on stuff like pff which gives zero context.

 

People also assume pff has some sort of computer doing these grades. All these grades are given out by former internet sports bloggers with biases watching the film once and then determining wether that play was positive or not and determining wether the play call intended that or not, or if the defenses is playing prevent or not, just so much goes into it, it’s impossible. They give positive grades for garbage time numbers for fug sakes

They actually go over how they grade in pretty big detail on their website, and they actually address some of the issues you have.  A lot of people would benefit from taking the time to read it.

Are there times they might not know the play call? of course.  I'm guessing they are better at it than 99.9% of the fans.  Also over the course of the season that margin of error will probably end up being applied pretty evenly to all of the players.  

Its not that their system is perfect, until you get all 32 teams to give out the play call to a central agency that will never happen, but their system is better than any fans because they apply their system to the entire league.  Fans don't have time to watch every snap of every player on every game.

 

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

First off no it’s not, and according to who?????

Teams have their own analytics department, who watch a hell of a lot more tape than pff.

Tell me how pff how is more qualified than Warren Sharp, or QBr, next gen, Cian Fahey, pro football reference, football outsiders ext...

Cause Colinsworth got behind them and gave them the media boost? Is that why?

Yep!

Like it or not, they're market leaders! Give credit to Collinsworth if you like! PFF is not the only one, but ALL 32 teams use their service! Next Gen Stats (the NFL) was created in large part due to the success of PFF. Some of the guys you mentioned aren't looking at every play for every player and "grading" players as much as they're basically compiling stats. 

Don't hate on PFF for obviously better marketing! 

 

[Scott12345]

4 hours ago, Ja Rhule said:

It was proven multiple times that Moore was wide open 20-30 yards down the field but Teddy preferred to throw 5-10 yards completions to Robby and Curtis.

We should have beaten the bears...DJ wide open for winning score...teddy missed him in the end zone, again wide open, to beat the Vikings as well

[top dawg]

Funny thing is, guess which receiver is rated the top receiver in the NFL by Football Outsiders? Moore is 20th!

[top dawg]

So PFF is about the same as Football Outsiders. Wow! Ain't that a bitch?

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

What’s the grade????

This has nothing to do with eye test, that’s a 70 yard TD with Rodgers throwing it to Moore.

 

And since your apparently a pff subscribers did Adams get a higher grade on this play where all he did was run straight with little separation but Rodgers threw a perfect pass. Than Moore did on this play where he had to come back for the ball even though he had his man beat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have access to play by play grades but yes PFF tries to isolate the player.  I would guess both plays would be a positive score, and I don't know about this particular instance but they do give a higher grade based on difficultly and context.  So they are in fact factoring in the things you are referencing.  Are they perfect with it, no,  but its still better than traditional ranking metrics.  

But earlier I did say that WR is probably the hardest position to totally separate from their teammates from an evaluation standpoint and QB is the reason for this, but what is the better option?

Does total yards give us a better ranking? No, PFF actually accounts for the very thing you are saying better than most ranking tools we have.

You are quick to talk about how the "eye test" is better but in reality PFF is the closest thing to a uniformly, thoroughly applied eye test as we have.  The irony is a lot of the  complaints you have with traditional stats are addressed with PFF

Here again what ranking system out there doesn't the best job of ranking all of the WRs or any player for that matter?

 

 

 

 

[top dawg]

Let's see what NGS has to say about Adams:

"Adams was just as special as Diggs in 2020 when teaming up with Aaron Rodgers; he even landed on my list of top 10 MVP candidates last week, for good reason. Adams owned a catch rate over expectation of +9.9 percent and helped Rodgers post an incredible 136 passer rating when targeting him, which was far and away the best mark in the entire league when it comes to targeting one receiver. Adams' 18 touchdowns helped power that statistic, and he was also the most productive receiver on a per-route basis, gaining 3.1 yards per route run. Adams paired his typically elite route running with stellar outside performance, catching 13 of his touchdowns on targets outside the numbers and winning the perimeter."

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-based-2020-nfl-all-pro-team-offense

[GoobyPls]

23 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

They actually go over how they grade in pretty big detail on their website, and they actually address some of the issues you have.  A lot of people would benefit from taking the time to read it.

Are there times they might not know the play call? of course.  I'm guessing they are better at it than 99.9% of the fans.  Also over the course of the season that margin of error will probably end up being applied pretty evenly to all of the players.  

Its not that their system is perfect, until you get all 32 teams to give out the play call to a central agency that will never happen, but their system is better than any fans because they apply their system to the entire league.  Fans don't have time to watch every snap of every player on every game.

 

They don’t go into detail they ever do. They all have biases and it shows when grading there favored players. They have held a grudge against guys like Josh Allen, Cam now Herbert cause they don’t fit the mold they labeled them when giving out draft grades.

 

ive known of pfff way before they became mainstream, they had a bunch bleacher report guys working for them for free, and all those guys all held biases and were fans of teams and certain players.