Justin Fields concerns

[LinvilleGorge]

9 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you gave me a choice between a quarterback who has great physical tools but lesser mental skills versus one with top mental ability but lesser physical skills, I'm taking the latter every time.

As to Fields, and college quarterbacks in general, very few college systems challenge quarterbacks anymore.

It depends on just how limited those aspects are. If you don't have the physical ability to execute, it doesn't matter how great your mental skills are. Maybe you'll make a good coach, but you're never going to make a good player.

[45catfan]

9 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you gave me a choice between a quarterback who has great physical tools but lesser mental skills versus one with top mental ability but lesser physical skills, I'm taking the latter every time.

As to Fields, and college quarterbacks in general, very few college systems challenge quarterbacks anymore.

Lance's HC said that very thing; they did challenge Trey.  As a redshirt freshman they started him off simple and threw more on his plate each week until he had a command of the offense and by season's end it was pretty much Trey's offense.  He had the ability to change out of plays based on what the defense was giving him.  I'm not sure if you watched it, but the video with NDSU's HC was posted in one of these threads talking about Lance.

[45catfan]

Too many of y'all are caught on on the whole FCS thing.  Put Lance on OSU and Fields on NDSU (but they keep their current stats) and I bet these FBS homers would be all in on Trey.  It would go something like this: 'That Fields kid has never played anybody, he from some small FCS school...I bet he couldn't play with the big boys in a Power 5 school.' Yadda, yadda, yadda and so forth.

[Mr. Scot]

41 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It depends on just how limited those aspects are. If you don't have the physical ability to execute, it doesn't matter how great your mental skills are. Maybe you'll make a good coach, but you're never going to make a good player.

If you get a player with physical skills but no mental ability, you've basically got Johnny Manziel.

I'm not a Mac Jones fan, but I'd take him over Manziel in a heartbeat.

[MHS831]

I have a theory, based on my area of expertise.  Only a theory, but there is evidence to support what I am saying--This is only for those who are interested in the relationship between the brain and performance during times of anxiety and stress-but we rarely hear this in relation to the job of the QB.   Long--I hesitated to share and nearly deleted, so take it for what it is worth.  This is my attempt to apply what i know in one field to the gridiron--I am sure it has some weaknesses, but since the Huddle is not a peer-reviewed journal, I will proceed.

When a QB can run, often the run becomes their check down, which is what I said about Cam coming out of college.  You know that your God given athleticism can save you, and those legs have become part of his weaponry for his entire life.  From Pop Warner through high school through college, Cam's brain knew his legs were an option, and that was also true for Steve Young (who had much more time to understand the pro game that Cam or most athletic QBs did) Elway was a terrible passer his rookie season (under 50% completions) and did not experience success until late in his career.  And if you read articles about these guys, their footwork was the thing that they worked on the most as they transitioned to becoming a more mature, successful, etc.  NFL QB.  Warren Moon actually worked with Cam because he is probably the best example of a QB that transitioned to the NFL style-after being in the CFL for a while after being a running college QB.  Randall Cunningham had to get injured and he transitioned late in his career and had success. 

Here is what I think happens in the heat of battle: Your brain tells your feet to run before your eyes do--reason?  Your brain's primary job is to protect you.  The brain does not distinguish between real threats or fake ones (which is why you get scared and sweaty during a horror movie)--so it makes complete sense.  Once your brain has experienced trauma (injury) it can cause adverse reactions to repeated events (complex trauma) and that can impact the brain's message to the body even more.  I have researched this for 20 years, (related to children and trauma and how it impacts behavior), so trust me or challenge this if you want.  I am simplifying it here to give it brevity and clarity.  When the legs become slower and less reliable, and the brain cannot depend on them any longer, it adapts--in the case of Cam, perhaps too late--or the person becomes vulnerable to the lack of adaptation because the defense mode escape--legs--are no longer effective protection and it makes the player vulnerable.  Young and Elway had more time to develop and learn, but watch film on how often they ran at the end of their careers vs. early on.  Better example:  Warren Moon in college vs. his time in Houston.  Night and day.

So when a QB relies on his legs, anxiety (pressure) moves his feet to prepare to run (my theory, but consistent with everything I have ever read about reflexes in relation to learned experiences).  When the feet are unconsciously preparing to run before the conscious brain has decided to do so, and the QB throws the ball (perhaps as a conscious defensive maneuver), his mechanics are off-causing bad throws.  Cam was very accurate when he dropped back, planted his right foot, and threw the ball.  If he did not release the ball at that time, he would scramble/run, and his passes were much less accurate.

Brady, on the other hand, can read the defense before the snap, and he is actually going through his progressions to anticipate the open WR during his drop back.  When he plants his foot, he already knows what he is doing with the ball most of the time.  Most QBs cannot anticipate like this, so they hold the ball too long and go through progressions while in the pocket, after dropping back.  Brady's brain has never been conditioned to use "run!" as a way out of problems, so he had to develop in other ways to become effective and survive.  Of course, this is not applicable all the time, but if it is applicable only 20% of the time, that makes a huge difference.  We cannot see or coach the subconscious--the parts of the lymbic system that protect us all.  They are always signalling the rest of our brain, even though we know the threat is manufactured and basically safe, we become different animals during a football game than we are in a shopping mall, for example.  Think about Luke Kuechly, for example.  What flips that switch?  Football players are at war, and parts of their brains treat the experience no differently than if they actually were in Afghanistan or Vietnam.  Soldiers are trained not to run from battle, which is why honor and pride are so important.  They are trained to ignore the "flight" (run) command that the brain's amygdala is screaming through their skulls--and those who cannot get "run!" out of their heads are the most vulnerable.  Maybe a bad comparison and not meant to trivialize what soldiers go through, but as stated, the amygdala is the alarm--it does not decide what is real and what is not--the rest of the brain--much slower in the processing---makes that determination, but not clearly until the adrenaline etc. has run its course. 

Disclaimers:

Yes, this was long.

No, this was not racist.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by MHS831

[ncsfinest21]

Can he be taught. Thats hard because Cam had the same problem and he got a little better but not as good to catapult him. Even then when he tried his passes were high. Love Cam though

[MHS831]

36 minutes ago, ncsfinest21 said:

Can he be taught. Thats hard because Cam had the same problem and he got a little better but not as good to catapult him. Even then when he tried his passes were high. Love Cam though

It is probably more than being taught--it is like being reprogrammed--if that makes sense.  Which is why it is so hard to do.  To learn to do something from scratch, it is completely conscious memory until it becomes muscle memory--like typing. But something like this requires an adjustment of instincts--you have to deny the impulses to do what your brain tells you to do.  It would be like changing / rearranging the keys on the keyboard ( in alphabetical order, for example) and asking you to avoid using your index finger on the right hand only. Sounds easy, I guess, but it is not.  How long would it take you to return to normal typing speed? 

Edited February 22, 2021 by MHS831

[FuFuLamePoo]

22 hours ago, SteveSmithTD89 said:

Based on what? Everything in that article is 100% accurate. This isn't some "Fake smile, narcissistic con artist" bullshit we heard with Cam.

He struggles making reads because he stares down his first read too long. Its prevalent in the Alabama, Northwestern and the Indiana games.

Its a matter of whether the scheme is limiting him (Herbert) or if he is simply slow through his reads because he's been able to get by on sheer athleticism he hasn't needed to (Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson) or if he flat out can't make them (Haskins)

He is just as raw as Trey Lance in the sense you'll have to mold him into a pro QB and build him up. The difference between the 2 is we've seen Fields light up big time schools (Clemson game comes to mind). His talent and leadership are there. If our coaches think they can build him into the star he can be, I'm all in.

It’s racist 

https://t.co/LS7sZhNyVh

[Untouchable]

Oh well, guess he should drop to #8 then. Ignore the noise, he has the tools and once he interviews teams will understand if the one read has any merits

New breakdown vs. Indiana

 

[Basbear]

Im not a fan, but heres the thing. Only it takes is one team and if that team is in the top three, hes a top three pick. 31 other teams could have him as a 2nd rounder, but one team could make him a first. 

Hes in that danger zone for me. One game he looks like a HOF, the next backup XFLer. I hate those types. Its very hard to correct those awful games and very hard to cut, cause he looked great two games ago. 

[FuFuLamePoo]

On 2/22/2021 at 10:50 AM, Mr. Scot said:

If you get a player with physical skills but no mental ability, you've basically got Johnny Manziel.

I'm not a Mac Jones fan, but I'd take him over Manziel in a heartbeat.

If we aren't taking off the field stuff into equation this is a fuging insane take, and I agree with you on most things. JM was a good prospect and would have been a great fit in today's NFL if he weren't wrestling with a lot of demons.

[USC/panthers_11]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:24 PM, FuFuLamePoo said:

It’s racist 

https://t.co/LS7sZhNyVh

Ok. I guess it's a bonafide fact then since this random article said so. Case closed.

[LinvilleGorge]

There's a lot to like about Wilson, Fields, and Lance. But there are legit concerns about all three as well. Bottom line, if we draft one of them I'm just gonna hope we made the right call.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

If we aren't taking off the field stuff into equation this is a fuging insane take, and I agree with you on most things. JM was a good prospect and would have been a great fit in today's NFL if he weren't wrestling with a lot of demons.

Manziel was a knucklehead on field too.