The nightmare in Philadelphia

[bythenbrs]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Tampa won one with Gruden.

From what I've read, it sounds like a combination of Doug Peterson (and Jim Schwartz) doing an amazing job, Nick Foles getting hot at the right time and in some cases just plain luck.

And then they basically dismantled everything they'd built

Strangely enough, an Eagles forum is reporting that the Iggles are trying to reaquire Foles from da Bears.  Life is weird.

[Tbe]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Tampa won one with Gruden.

From what I've read, it sounds like a combination of Doug Peterson (and Jim Schwartz) doing an amazing job, Nick Foles getting hot at the right time and in some cases just plain luck.

And then they basically dismantled everything they'd built.

I doubt it’s really that simple. If it was, Peterson wouldn’t have flamed out so fast.

I know it’s popular to say “boo math nerds - yay football guys”, but most of these “football guys” are pretty dumb too.

My guess is the eagles had some good stuff going on but it came from the wrong personalities.

Plus, they had some lucky breaks (as you said).

Edited April 13, 2021 by Tbe

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, Tbe said:

I doubt it’s really that simple. If it was, Peterson wouldn’t have flamed out so fast.

I know it’s popular to say “boo math nerds - yay football guys”, but most of these “football guys” are pretty dumb too.

My guess is the eagles had some good stuff going on but it came from the wrong personalities.

Plus, they had some lucky breaks (as you said).

I'm fine with using analytics as a supplement, but it's no replacement for people who actually know what they're watching.

And yes, there are flukes and lucky breaks. That's why I respect sustained success over a flash in the pan (hell, even Marty had that).

[Dilla]

Well, this will help Pederson get another HC job next year lol

[Mr. Scot]

According to Florio, the part about tension between football people and analytics people is a common thing (link)

The article points to tensions between football and analytics, a dynamic hardly unique to the Eagles. One unnamed source described the team’s analytics department to TheAthletic.com as a “clandestine, Black Ops department that doesn’t answer to anybody except the owner.”

That’s how it currently works in plenty of NFL front offices. And it’s why so many coaches have embraced analytics. If they don’t, the analytics employees tell ownership that, if the coach had done what the analytics called for, the team would have won.

[Mr. Scot]

Here's Florio's summary of the full article...

The Eagles reportedly treated former coach Doug Pederson like “a baby,” according to unnamed sources who claim that Pederson was beaten down by relentless second guessing. In 2019, for example, after a Thursday night win at Green Bay, Pederson was grilled by owner Jeffrey Lurie (an analytics aficionado) over the fact that Pederson hadn’t called more passes.

“[Pederson] was ridiculed and criticized for every decision,” an unnamed source told TheAthletic.com. “If you won by three, it wasn’t enough. If you lost on a last-second field goal, you’re the worst coach in history.”

Said another unnamed source, “The fact that Doug had the success he did with all the poo going on in the building, sometimes I look at our Super Bowl rings, and I’m like, ‘Holy cow, I don’t know how we did it.'”

Per the report, the undermining of Pederson began in only his second season, which ended with a Super Bowl victory. Prior to the start of the 2017 campaign, word spread through the organization of a three-hour meeting between Lurie and defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz. Multiple unnamed sources told TheAthletic.com that “there was a feeling around the team that Lurie was vetting an in-house replacement for Pederson in the event the Eagles got off to a slow start.”

The article points to tensions between football and analytics, a dynamic hardly unique to the Eagles. One unnamed source described the team’s analytics department to TheAthletic.com as a “clandestine, Black Ops department that doesn’t answer to anybody except the owner.”

That’s how it currently works in plenty of NFL front offices. And it’s why so many coaches have embraced analytics. If they don’t, the analytics employees tell ownership that, if the coach had done what the analytics called for, the team would have won.

Complicating matters in Philly is that owner Jeffrey Lurie is very involved in the draft preparations, and he always has been. But that’s his right, as the owner of the team, to be as involved or uninvolved as he wants. With most if not all owners finding a way to state preferences when it comes to huge decisions, it’s better if those owners actually have put in the work.

In Philadephia, enough work was put in to win a Super Bowl. That’s the good news. The bad news is that things have collapsed quickly. Chances are that the failures in Philadelphia bear plenty of fingerprints.

[Adb6368]

Isn’t tepper constantly pushing the analytical approach ?

[CanePantherHornet]

I don't feel sorry for them at all. They got lucky and caught lightning in a bottle just like we did but they got even more lucky and actually got to win the big one.

 

I've said it 1000 times, I don't care what comes after, if the Panthers just win ONE I'll be happy for life.

[Ready 2 Win]

I cannot send enough bags of poo to that team and mostly their fanbase!

I skipped my sisters wedding in 2003 to stay home, drink Carolina Pale Ale I used to be able to buy for 4.49/6pack with a few bowls.

The poo they did to our fans that were brave/stupid enough to go into that mesh pit of fat hairy belly snow beasts and their toothless women makes me hate them more than even our own division rivals. 

Fug that team and their fans!

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, CanePantherHornet said:

I've said it 1000 times, I don't care what comes after, if the Panthers just win ONE I'll be happy for life.

Can't go along with that at all.

I want this team to be perennial contenders.

[Sgt Schultz]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Can't go along with that at all.

I want this team to be perennial contenders.

Trust me, the glitz and elation of winning one does not quench the thirst. It only changes one's perspective a bit.

I have been a St. Louis Blues fan since 1969.  We have suffered through good and bad seasons, been a pretty consistent playoff team, had teams that entered the playoffs as a team everyone had their eyes on, and sometimes got on a run that took us deep into the playoffs.  In 1969-70 we were in the Cup Finals, but in those days the 1967 expansion teams were guaranteed a spot in the Finals against one of the old guard.  We were the expansion division finalists for three years, with 69-70 being the last.  It was our last appearance in the Cup finals until 2019.

Then on June 12, 2019 we won game 7 in Boston to skate with the Stanley Cup for the first time.  I still get a lump in my throat when I see the dying seconds of that game, when Doc Emrick (the announcer) says with 12+ seconds left "and the Blues at the bench realize they are going to be champions."

I will always treasure that championship, and it brings a smile to my face to this day. 

I still wanted to win it again last year, and this year, and next year.  I still have the usual ups and downs with the team's performance.  The team winning it created at least two differences:  1) I don't carry around the thought that just once before I die, I want to see them win the Cup, and 2) I know what it feels like to watch them win it, and I want that feeling again. It is no longer an abstract concept.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sgt Schultz

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Trust me, the glitz and elation of winning one does not quench the thirst. It only changes one's perspective a bit.

I have been a St. Louis Blues fan since 1969.  We have suffered through good and bad seasons, been a pretty consistent playoff team, had teams that entered the playoffs as a team everyone had their eyes on, and sometimes got on a run that took us deep into the playoffs.  In 1969-70 we were in the Cup Finals, but in those days the 1967 expansion teams were guaranteed a spot in the Finals against one of the old guard.  We were the expansion division finalists for three years, with 69-70 being the last.  It was our last appearance in the Cup finals until 2019.

Then on June 12, 2019 we won game 7 in Boston to skate with the Stanley Cup for the first time.  I still get a lump in my throat when I see the dying seconds of that game, when Doc Emrick (the announcer) says with 12+ seconds left "and the Blues at the bench realize they are going to be champions."

I will always treasure that championship, and it brings a smile to my face to this day. 

I still wanted to win it again last year, and this year, and next year.  I still have the usual ups and downs with the team's performance.  The team winning it created at least two differences:  1) I don't carry around the thought that just once before I die, I want to see them win the Cup, and 2) I know what it feels like to watch them win it, and I want that feeling again. It is no longer an abstract concept.

Oh, I get it.

And I also know the same people who say "if we just win one, I'll be happy forever" will be the same ones just a few years later loudly complaining about how the team sucks.

[Carl Spackler]

15 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Honestly, it's probably pretty close to what we would have gotten here if Tepper had won the argument to hire a "non-traditional" GM.

We really dodged a bullet there.

With whom was he arguing?

[Carl Spackler]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, I get it.

And I also know the same people who say "if we just win one, I'll be happy forever" will be the same ones just a few years later loudly complaining about how the team sucks.

Not necessarily. I've been a Carolina Hurricanes fan for a long time and while we went nearly a full decade without making the playoffs, I didn't bitch because we won the Stanley Cup in 2006.