Some good roster analysis from Gantt

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Take a look at the two guys with the worst TD/INT ratios: Bradshaw (-17) and Aikman (-15). These two guys ended their careers with a combined record of 7-0 in the Super Bowl. Both started their careers with teams at bottom of the league. By the end of their 5th seasons they were quarterbacking two of the greatest dynasties in NFL history. 

They also played with a poo ton of Hall of Famers on the field with them

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, bigdavis said:

Wrong.  It IS ALL about "what you think."

This thread is nothing but your way-too-often repeated 3 statements:

1) that we "mortgaged the future," a spurious claim put to rest by several posters

2) the whole "opportunity cost" theory of yours, that you say isn't understood by anyone but you.  Not investing idle cash is a valid example of a lost opportunity cost, not the selection of one investment over another.  Opportunity cost includes the decision taken between two or more options. The cost is the price paid for choosing one option over another.  When Horn was chosen over Fields, that "cost" was unknown; it would only be created if it Fields far outplays the combined contributions of Darnold + Horn.  AND THAT IS SOMETHING AS YET UNDETERMINED.

3) your factually incorrect claim, oft repeated, that Darnold is a failed reclamation project, and they hardly ever pay off for the reclaimer.  I have never seen a more soundly thrashed theory than by @grimesgoat's recent list of salient comparisons.  Bravo to him!

I say you should stop the debate now.  The luster of your past record of fine posts is being tarnished by a stubbornness to yield.

No-one (not even you) can say with a certainty how either of these QBs will play.  I do know this: Darnold is the Panther QB, not Fields, and the Draft team didn't flip a coin; they made a reasoned judgment.  They know more than any of us.

Go. Panthers!

Sigh... this is so very reminiscent of last year. Just substitute "Sam Darnold" for "Teddy Bridgewater". 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

They also played with a poo ton of Hall of Famers on the field with them

When you have to go back decades to find your examples and even those are a stretch... oh wee mayne.

It's basically exactly my point. It's a long shot.

[Sir Purr]

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=DarnSa00&player_id1=AlleJo02&sum=0&request=1

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're hilariously emotional about this.

This isn't difficult to grasp. If Darnold continues to be bad (historically likely) while Fields or Jones ends up being legit then how exactly did we not mortgage the future on Darnold? The opportunity was there to add a franchise QB prospect and we passed due to Darnold.  Darnold was available for "basically a 2nd round pick" because NFL teams know that he "basically sucks" and the success rate of former 1st rounds busts bouncing back elsewhere is very slim.

You calling me emotional on this topic is hysterically funny, especially when you've been whining about this just about every day since the draft.

They didn't pick the guy you wanted. Heck, they didn't wind up taking the players I wanted in the first few rounds either. It happens.

Get over it.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We'll see. Fields may turn out to be a JAG but that's the beauty of the rookie wage scale. It lets you take chances on elite talent without crippling your cap. I was all about taking Cam #1 overall in large part due to the new at the time rookie wage scale. Had we been facing paying him like Sam Bradford was paid as a rookie I would've been a LOT more hesitant.

Darnold is still on his rookie contract.

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You calling me emotional on this topic is hysterically funny, especially when you've been whining about this just about every day since the draft.

They didn't pick the guy you wanted. Heck, they didn't wind up taking the players I wanted in the first few rounds either. It happens.

Get over it.

I just get entertained by how you always put up a front of being this neutral fan but always get super emotional and combative when someone has a differing opinions.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I just get entertained by how you always put up a front of being this neutral fan but always get super emotional and combative when someone has a differing opinions.

Oh, the irony here...

And yeah, as far as Darnold. I am neutral. I have no idea whether he's going to succeed or not. I just hope he does.

As far as emotion, I think what's got you all wound up isn't just that they didn't pick the guy you wanted. What seems to be equally pissing you off is that prior to the draft, you committed heavily to this idea that the team only saw Darnold as an insurance policy.

I told you at the time there was plenty of evidence to the contrary, but you pretty much talked yourself into that belief so much so that you kept asking why other people couldn't see how obvious it was.

Pretty obvious now that you were very, very wrong.

Big deal. It happens. Every one of us gets something wrong on an annual basis.

All you're doing by continuously throwing a fit over it is making yourself look bad.

And if you doubt me on that, I'd suggest you take note that I'm not the only person calling you out on this.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[CarolinaLivin]

I think it's time for a huddle intervention... 

 

 

... lol

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, the irony here...

And yeah, as far as Darnold. I am neutral. I have no idea whether he's going to succeed or not. I just hope he does.

As far as emotion, I think what's got you all wound up isn't just that they didn't pick the guy you wanted. What seems to be equally pissing you off is that prior to the draft, you committed heavily to this idea that the team only saw Darnold as an insurance policy.

I told you at the time there was plenty of evidence to the contrary, but you pretty much talked yourself into that belief so much so that you kept asking why other people couldn't see how obvious it was.

Pretty obvious now that you were very, very wrong.

Big deal. It happens. Every one of us gets something wrong on an annual basis.

All you're doing by continuously throwing a fit over it is making yourself look bad.

And if you doubt me on that, I'd suggest you take note that I'm not the only person calling you out on this.

You're super emotional. That's okay, but your continued denial of it is hilarious.

Everyone "called me out" on Teddy last year too. It'll be different here. Joe Brady's system. Weapons. CMC, Moore, Samuel. Teddy will take the next step. All sounding familiar?

You're a fan so you desperately want Darnold to be successful. Hell, that's understandable. I'd love to be wrong. I hope Darnold is the SB MVP next year. History is just stacked heavily against this.

So, I guess just keep being emotional and lashing out because it's funny.

 

[Moo Daeng]

I believe it's the optimism that's angering the grouch crowd.

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

I believe it's the optimism that's angering the grouch crowd.

Optimism is Panthers kryptonite.   The grouch crowd knows this. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're super emotional. That's okay, but your continued denial of it is hilarious.

Everyone "called me out" on Teddy last year too. It'll be different here. Joe Brady's system. Weapons. CMC, Moore, Samuel. Teddy will take the next step. All sounding familiar?

You're a fan so you desperately want Darnold to be successful. Hell, that's understandable. I'd love to be wrong. I hope Darnold is the SB MVP next year. History is just stacked heavily against this.

So, I guess just keep being emotional and lashing out because it's funny.

It's not at all difficult to deny something when it isn't true.

I'd add that I'm pretty sure anybody reading your back and forth with me right now wouldn't be labeling me as the emotional one who's "lashing out' (hell, just look back in this thread).

Yes, you were right about Bridgewater. Congratulations. Doesn't guarantee that you're right about Darnold. You were already wrong about how the team saw him. Here's hoping you're also wrong about the rest.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[Diehardpanth02]

3 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't know about Darnold having the future mortgaged by this, honestly. First, we grab him for basically a second rounder. Secondly, all of the guys we've picked up are foundational pieces that if they work out and he doesn't, they'll still be in place for the next guy.

Darnold's got a rough resume` and we've got to see if the game was too big for him or too big for his old coaching staff (HC, OC, QBC). Since those guys got canned for their efforts, it's a fair gamble that their suckage carried over into his game. The question is, did they damage him beyond repair? Did he ever have it in the first place and was he a bad choice made by bad coaches and a bad GM? 

We don't know yet. Rhule seems to think he can fix the mess and that Darnold is the kind of guy he's looking for. This year and next will be relatively cheap if we get a decent to good QB for our efforts, and it'll be a steal if he's better than that. If he's disappointing, which honestly there is a chance of, we're back to picking high and we're on the hook for $22 million over two years, basically no worse than we were with Teddy. 

I sure wish I could read the tea leaves and see where this will end up, but I can't. Just going to have to trust the coach and the process. We have to believe that Rhule won't be taking all seven years of his contract to build a winning squad. Don't we?

Best point of view I've seen in regards to this. They're building a football team, and rebuilding a franchise from the ground up essentially. They mortgaged their future on surrounding the QB position with talent. So that then they can cycle through the QB carousel until they find their guy. Is Sam it? No one knows. But worst case scenario, if he doesn't pan out we've built a stable roster to draft or sign the next guy.

 

Sam should be given the benefit of the doubt for 2 years tops. If he isn't making improvements then, as Jay-Z said we "on to the next one".