Sam Darnold's "Style of Ball"

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just for the record, I honestly thought Teddy would do really well for us last year.  When I first heard about his contract, I felt like I got punched in the stomach.  But, I figured that Teddy would excel in the system and be better than he is.  Part of that was assuming that Joe Brady was some kind of miracle worker.

For me personally, that's a big reason why my expectations for Sam Darnold are pretty low.  I don't think we can say that Joe Brady is a bad OC, but he's certainly not the QB miracle worker he was made out to be.  I think Brady can grow into a good play caller, but he looked like a rookie OC last season.  3rd downs and red zone come to mind.  Not that Teddy's play helped the situation, but I was scratching my head at some of the situational calls like others here.

This is going to be all on Sam.  If he can thrive in this culture and turn his career around, that's great.  But after watching some of Sam's low-lights with the Jets, my expectations are tempered.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

No doubt.  Darnold was not our first choice.  

Fields is going to a playoff team, he should look good.  It going to hurt watching him excel if we don't.

On the other hand, if Darnold is throwing deep TDs and Horn is shutting down opponents, we are going to be very happy for a long time.

Yep. It won't matter how good Fields is or isn't if Darnold pans out. Once we get our guy, that is all that matters.

Edited May 26, 2021 by kungfoodude

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Just for the record, I honestly thought Teddy would do really well for us last year.  When I first heard about his contract, I felt like I got punched in the stomach.  But, I figured that Teddy would excel in the system and be better than he is.  Part of that was assuming that Joe Brady was some kind of miracle worker.

For me personally, that's a big reason why my expectations for Sam Darnold are pretty low.  I don't think we can say that Joe Brady is a bad OC, but he's certainly not the QB miracle worker he was made out to be.  I think Brady can grow into a good play caller, but he looked like a rookie OC last season.  3rd downs and red zone come to mind.  Not that Teddy's play helped the situation, but I was scratching my head at some of the situational calls like others here.

This is going to be all on Sam.  If he can thrive in this culture and turn his career around, that's great.  But after watching some of Sam's low-lights with the Jets, my expectations are tempered.

I agree with most of this. I think some of the luster came off Brady last year and he looked a lot like a rookie OC. We fans also need to understand that the coaches also have a learning curve in the NFL too.

[SBBlue]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yep. It won't matter how good Fields is or isn't of Darnold pans out. Once we get our guy, that is all that matters.

Yes...with Darnold, the contract is short, and in the end after all the trading down in the draft, we didn't give up that much if he doesn't pan out.

I have to tell you, the more I read about this deal, the situation, in context with the draft, it looks really clever.  Its as if they planned it or something.

[PNW_PantherMan]

Here's something else to consider.

We replaced Teddy essentially because we were 0-8 in games where we had a chance to win it.  Teddy didn't do enough to win any of those games.  The assumption then, is we can bring in a better QB to make a few plays and win some of those games.  The other side of this coin, is that Teddy didn't do anything to really lose any of those games either.  Sam has committed some seriously ugly turnovers in a Jets uniform that I don't think Teddy even comes close to.  It's truly a boom or bust change at QB.  We could be picking higher than 8 next year as a result.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Yes...with Darnold, the contract is short, and in the end after all the trading down in the draft, we didn't give up that much if he doesn't pan out.

I have to tell you, the more I read about this deal, the situation, in context with the draft, it looks really clever.  Its as if they planned it or something.

I disagree a little bit. I think although that price was not high, the cost would hurt a bit if he is a bust here.

I wish I had your faith in the move. I definitely hope you are right.

[SBBlue]

13 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Here's something else to consider.

We replaced Teddy essentially because we were 0-8 in games where we had a chance to win it.  Teddy didn't do enough to win any of those games.  The assumption then, is we can bring in a better QB to make a few plays and win some of those games.  The other side of this coin, is that Teddy didn't do anything to really lose any of those games either.  Sam has committed some seriously ugly turnovers in a Jets uniform that I don't think Teddy even comes close to.  It's truly a boom or bust change at QB.  We could be picking higher than 8 next year as a result.

I would disagree with the "don't think Teddy even comes close too".  Throwing interceptions in the endzone or an interception on the first play of the last possession with a chance to win, are pretty bad.   Missing wide open receivers in the back of endzone with a chance to win.  Fumbling on the goal line...I thought that was just a cliché.  Teddy was so bad in the last game, he got benched....and Teddy is an OK QB in my opinion.  

I would consider this, how do you think Teddy would fair on the Jets with a swiss cheese oline, butter finger receivers, non-existent running game, and a offensive scheme that doesn't like check downs to running backs?

 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

39 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

I label people as negative when they have to jump in to any conversation about him and repeat themselves for the 500th time turning every thread in to the same discussion we've seen for 2 months. 

 

Says the guy whose literal every post is the same damn thing. Shitting on anyone voicing an opinion while proclaiming superiority due to being unwilling to take the chance of offering an actual opinion. 

Your posts are useless.

[PNW_PantherMan]

5 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I would consider this, how do you think Teddy would fair on the Jets with a swiss cheese oline, butter finger receivers, non-existent running game, and a offensive scheme that doesn't like check downs to running backs?

Pretty bad, probably.  But I don't think he makes as many air-mail type interceptions that Sam did in some of the worst games.

Personally, I like the move.  I'm a bit of a gamblin' man myself, so I like the boom/bust potential of swapping out Teddy for Sam.  I just don't think a lot of the more optimistic people see the potential downside here.  I think we could end up with a top 5 pick in next year's draft.  That could ultimately net us our real franchise QB, but that's just how I see it.

[frankw]

51 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

I label people as negative when they have to jump in to any conversation about him and repeat themselves for the 500th time turning every thread in to the same discussion we've seen for 2 months. 

If you don't like the discussion involving inconvenient truths perhaps you should start your own Panthers community. Of course that would require you to form an original thought that does not involve tearing down others contributions.

[Jackie Lee]

22 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I would disagree with the "don't think Teddy even comes close too".  Throwing interceptions in the endzone or an interception on the first play of the last possession with a chance to win, are pretty bad.   Missing wide open receivers in the back of endzone with a chance to win.  Fumbling on the goal line...I thought that was just a cliché.  Teddy was so bad in the last game, he got benched....and Teddy is an OK QB in my opinion.  

I would consider this, how do you think Teddy would fair on the Jets with a swiss cheese oline, butter finger receivers, non-existent running game, and a offensive scheme that doesn't like check downs to running backs?

 

 

 

Same, taking sacks knocking us out of field goal rang etc.  I'd rather Sam scramble and throw a 50/50 ball than just give up and get sacked last play of the game. 

[SBBlue]

36 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I disagree a little bit. I think although that price was not high, the cost would hurt a bit if he is a bust here.

I wish I had your faith in the move. I definitely hope you are right.

Yeah opportunity costs are always hard to measure.  If we went Fields instead of Horn would we be better off?  Did they think Darnold's ceiling was comparable to Fields?   Or they just wanted Horn that bad (they turned down some tempting trade offers).  Rhule said he thought 2 players is better than one, so here we are.

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Pretty bad, probably.  But I don't think he makes as many air-mail type interceptions that Sam did in some of the worst games.

Personally, I like the move.  I'm a bit of a gamblin' man myself, so I like the boom/bust potential of swapping out Teddy for Sam.  I just don't think a lot of the more optimistic people see the potential downside here.  I think we could end up with a top 5 pick in next year's draft.  That could ultimately net us our real franchise QB, but that's just how I see it.

I was there.  I was really confused when I heard the trade.  I thought WTF.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Pretty bad, probably.  But I don't think he makes as many air-mail type interceptions that Sam did in some of the worst games.

Personally, I like the move.  I'm a bit of a gamblin' man myself, so I like the boom/bust potential of swapping out Teddy for Sam.  I just don't think a lot of the more optimistic people see the potential downside here.  I think we could end up with a top 5 pick in next year's draft.  That could ultimately net us our real franchise QB, but that's just how I see it.

A lot depends on how they develop Sam. I expect a dynamic running game and using a short passing game to get the ball out quickly. There seems to be an emphasis on mobility and moving up in the pocket instead of sitting back in the pocket like a statue. This o$ense isn't going to be close to what Darnold has played in before. So comparisons between now and with the Jets aren't really germaine. The real question is whether Sam can change into the quarterback we need him to be which is semi-mobile quick thinking and willing to play within the system. He has to pick up this system and learn how to use it to manipulate the defense which is what Teddy did well.  He has the physical skills so now we see what he has between his ears.