Rhule on QB (Darnold) & my translation.

[panthers55]

If  you want to blame anyone for Teddy blame Brady. If I remember discussions from when Bridgewater was signed it was because Brady was lobbying for him after working with him for 2 years in New Orleans. 

[top dawg]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

For all the pining over Fields, does their passing on him mean they don't value the position, or that their assessment of Fields doesn't agree with ours? 

Everything I have read leads me to believe they only interested in two QBs of the "big four," at least at pick #8: Lawrence or Wilson.  Once they figured out they were going to have no chance at them (or at least no chance without selling their souls to move up), they made the deal for Darnold.  Their assessment was that Darnold was their next best option. That is not necessarily a lack of appreciation for the position, it was a talent assessment.

Eight teams passed on Fields after Lawrence, Wilson, and Lance were taken, for whatever reason.  You could probably argue the Niners passed on Fields, too, since they took Lance.  Fields was apparently not the consensus home run pick a lot of us thought.  He may prove people wrong (an added challenge in Chicago), but the Panthers were not the only ones who did not have him graded high enough to be a top 12 pick. 

Once Sewell was off the board, I would have looked at Fields and Slater as the pick.  Apparently the Panthers didn't agree with me on either of them.  It doesn't mean they don't value the positions, it means their assessment of those players was different than mine.  Considering they have a small army of scouts and people in the room when their draft board is put together, I can accept that and not try to draw conclusions from it other than "they don't agree with me on this guy."

FWIW, Hurney didn't agree with my assessments, either.  That, I feel pretty good about.

Good points about people making value judgments on whether or not the Panthers--Rhule--generally values the QB position. 

I will say that it was Likely Lance and Wilson that were specifically valued at pick 8. Lawrence was never ever a possibility, and our FO, just like the whole of the NFL, knew that.

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, Jorgie said:

They specifically quoted teddy’s familiarity with the system for a reason I’m bringing him in. 
 

Again I would like to reiterate that this originally this discussion was about you implying that rhule somehow just discovered the notion that qb play is integral to success on the football field

In the NFL. That's the part you're leaving out. Yes, I think it's quite realistic that Rhule didn't grasp just how vital high level talent at QB is in the NFL until he got to the NFL and experienced it first hand. That's not a difficult concept to grasp. We all talked about how Rhule would likely have a learning curve adapting to the NFL. None of this is shocking or unexpected in the least.

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, Jorgie said:

I understand but to assume that he doesn’t or didn’t see the value of the qb is kind of wild to me

 

He's been pushing this agenda for two years. At least he's consistent.

 lol

 

11 minutes ago, Jorgie said:

They specifically quoted teddy’s familiarity with the system for a reason I’m bringing him in. 
 

Again I would like to reiterate that this originally this discussion was about you implying that rhule somehow just discovered the notion that qb play is integral to success on the football field

 

It is truly amazing how this works on the Huddlez. Someone chimes in, and the Goal Posts move. Someone else chimes in, and they move some more. 

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If  you want to blame anyone for Teddy blame Brady. If I remember discussions from when Bridgewater was signed it was because Brady was lobbying for him after working with him for 2 years in New Orleans. 

I just read somewhere (maybe on the Huddle) that as soon as Rhule was hired that Teddy was destined to be our QB last season. So, I don't know, I blame both of them and think that Rhule and Brady were on the same page as far as handing the reins to Bridgewater.

[Sgt Schultz]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Good points about people making value judgments on whether or not the Panthers--Rhule--generally values the QB position. 

I will say that it was Likely Lance and Wilson that were specifically valued at pick 8. Lawrence was never ever a possibility, and our FO, just like the whole of the NFL, knew that.

I agree, they knew Lawrence was unattainable.  I don't think I heard anything about them having interest in Lance, but that does not mean they didn't.  It seemed like once the Wilson ship sailed, they looked at door #3 which happened to be Darnold, in their estimation.  I hope their evaluation was correct.

[Jorgie]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

In the NFL. That's the part you're leaving out.

This is not his first gig in the nfl. He’s been around the league far more infinitely than you and I. A ten year old could tell you that having QB play is important “in the nfl”

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Jorgie said:

This is not his first gig in the nfl. He’s been around the league far more infinitely than you and I. A ten year old could tell you that having QB play is important “in the nfl”

He was an assistant OL coach for one year almost a decade ago. IMO, he and Brady thought they could make Teddy work in their system. They thought they could coach around his talent shortcomings. It didn't work. In the NFL, there comes a point where the prerequisite talent just isn't there. Teddy doesn't have it. He's a mediocre physical talent and he has a very conservative playing mentality. Good backup. Not a starter. Rhule and Brady had to learn it the hard way. That's all. 

 

[iamhubby1]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

In the NFL. That's the part you're leaving out. Yes, I think it's quite realistic that Rhule didn't grasp just how vital high level talent at QB is in the NFL until he got to the NFL and experienced it first hand. That's not a difficult concept to grasp. We all talked about how Rhule would likely have a learning curve adapting to the NFL. None of this is shocking or unexpected in the least.

 

The first bolded is just your opinion. Which is fine. Everyone should get the opportunity  to air their opinions.

 

That second bold? Are you saying your opinion is simplistic? Because a lot of us Huddlerz don't understand this notion of yours. That Rhule just all of a sudden understands the nature of the NFL QB? That he came into the league a naive College Coach.?

 

You've got this notion. And you are selling it hard. Problem is. Not everyone agrees with you. Rhule is too dang smart for this notion to have wings.

 

Lastly, it is a tad disingenuous to use Temple, and Baylor as measuring sticks against the top teams. That it somehow diminishes Rhules record because he couldn't beat teams that vastly out talented his.

[Jorgie]

13 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

He's been pushing this agenda for two years. At least he's consistent. 

If people want to criticize the outcomes of decisions I get it, but to think that somehow this one flew under Rhule’s radar, who from what I can tell from a distance, is a compulsive worker and student of the game, blew my mind a little bit.

I didn’t intend for it to turn into all this 

also would like to mention that there are holes and merits to the arguments made against the decisions made but at a certain point it becomes conjecture and i don’t want to open that bag of worms

[Mr. Scot]

31 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

For all the pining over Fields, does their passing on him mean they don't value the position, or that their assessment of Fields doesn't agree with ours? 

Everything I have read leads me to believe they only interested in two QBs of the "big four," at least at pick #8: Lawrence or Wilson.  Once they figured out they were going to have no chance at them (or at least no chance without selling their souls to move up), they made the deal for Darnold.  Their assessment was that Darnold was their next best option. That is not necessarily a lack of appreciation for the position, it was a talent assessment.

Eight teams passed on Fields after Lawrence, Wilson, and Lance were taken, for whatever reason.  You could probably argue the Niners passed on Fields, too, since they took Lance.  Fields was apparently not the consensus home run pick a lot of us thought.  He may prove people wrong (an added challenge in Chicago), but the Panthers were not the only ones who did not have him graded high enough to be a top 12 pick. 

Once Sewell was off the board, I would have looked at Fields and Slater as the pick.  Apparently the Panthers didn't agree with me on either of them.  It doesn't mean they don't value the positions, it means their assessment of those players was different than mine.  Considering they have a small army of scouts and people in the room when their draft board is put together, I can accept that and not try to draw conclusions from it other than "they don't agree with me on this guy."

FWIW, Hurney didn't agree with my assessments, either.  That, I feel pretty good about.

 Based on what I've read from various sources, Tepper believed in Fields.

Rhule and Fitterer? Not so much. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, iamhubby1 said:

 

The first bolded is just your opinion. Which is fine. Everyone should get the opportunity  to air their opinions.

 

That second bold? Are you saying your opinion is simplistic? Because a lot of us Huddlerz don't understand this notion of yours. That Rhule just all of a sudden understands the nature of the NFL QB? That he came into the league a naive College Coach.?

 

You've got this notion. And you are selling it hard. Problem is. Not everyone agrees with you. Rhule is too dang smart for this notion to have wings.

 

Lastly, it is a tad disingenuous to use Temple, and Baylor as measuring sticks against the top teams. That it somehow diminishes Rhules record because he couldn't beat teams that vastly out talented his.

The concept is simplistic. The reality that from the outside looking in you have one preconceived notion, then you get there and experience it first hand and learn differently. What I'm encouraged by is that Rhule learned from it. Despite the contract, they cut bait and moved on from Teddy when they saw he wasn't the answer. Every coach is going to make mistakes. The good ones learn from them and don't repeat the same ones. We went dumpster diving at QB again, but at least we targeted a guy who actually has the physical talent to potentially succeed. That's a smarter dumpster dive IMO.

 

[iamhubby1]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He was an assistant OL coach for one year almost a decade ago. IMO, he and Brady thought they could make Teddy work in their system. They thought they could coach around his talent shortcomings. It didn't work. In the NFL, there comes a point where the prerequisite talent just isn't there. Teddy doesn't have it. He's a mediocre physical talent and he has a very conservative playing mentality. Good backup. Not a starter. Rhule and Brady had to learn it the hard way. That's all. 

 

 

Rhule wanted to build a culture, and he wanted to win games. Rolling the dice on Teddy was a calculated risk. It didn't work. Nothing nefarious about it. It was Hurndog that gave out the contract. Not Rhule.

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Good points about people making value judgments on whether or not the Panthers--Rhule--generally values the QB position. 

I will say that it was Likely Lance and Wilson that were specifically valued at pick 8. Lawrence was never ever a possibility, and our FO, just like the whole of the NFL, knew that.

It was confirmed that we weren't interested in Lance because he didn't fit our system.