How much of our run blocking woes are on coaching and scheme?

[SBBlue]

In  2019 the Panthers had   a YBC/Att of  3.1  and was 3rd best in the league.
In  2020 the Panthers had   a YBC/Att of  2.1  and was 26th in the league.
In  2021  the Panthers have a YBC/Att of  1.7  and are 31st in the league.

Why the sudden decline? The 2019 Line was injury riddled with  a lot of Little/Daley at LT, Moton at RT, Paradis at C, Turner and Van Roten at G, and Williams going in and out.  We had a  league worst  58 sacks  in 2019 and went through 3 QBs.

Maybe its because it hasn't been strength of our coaches:
In  2018  the Saints had a     YBC/Att of  2.0  and was 30th in the league.
In  2019 the Chargers had a YBC/Att of  1.9  and was 26th in the league. 

Joe brady was not an OC at LSU, he was a passing game coordinator and wide receivers coach.  He was at the Saints in 2018, a year the Saints were horrible at YBC/Att.  Line Coach Pat Meyer did not do well with run blocking either his last year with the Chargers.

I'm not saying our linemen are exempt from the blame here, but our current performance are in line with both coaches past history.  The 2019 line has a lot of overlap with this year's line and was nothing spectacular.

We often say that we scheme around the line in pass pro, why aren't we doing the same in run blocking, like we did in 2019?  I think its not a strength of our coaches.
 

2019 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com



 

Edited October 2, 2021 by SBBlue

[Jaxel]

I think Cam Newton masked a lot of our running block issues during most of his seasons, because he was so big and often led our team in rushing. I think we are really have to rebuild from that now and it takes time. I think we can all admit that the Line has not been the first priority of this rebuild to this point. I do think think it will be the emphasis next year.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

when you say not the strength, do you mean not the focus? that's how i see it.

panther fans are accustomed to run focused offenses...i'm pretty sure those days are gone.

Edited October 2, 2021 by nosuchthingasapanther

[ForJimmy]

I know Elf and Erving haven’t looked great most of their career and Miller has been average at best. So if they were bad on other teams and bad on ours I would say they weren’t evaluated properly, which can fall on the staff. Rhule/Brady have taken players like Robby, Curtis Samuel and arguably Shaq, possibly DJax and they have shown much improvement with their coaching. It looks like they are doing the same with Darnold. OL might be a different story. They missed with Teddy (although some would argue he was sighed to be a stop gap player until we found our guy, but Tepper grew impatient) and Whitehead. I’m curious to see how they do with CJ Henderson.
I think we will have a lot of answers once Brown and Christensen start playing. If they can develop their drafted OL into solid players then I would say it’s not coaching/scheme as much as it is thinking they can make players who are average and below average better every time. If their drafted OL also fail to produce it falls on the coaching/development/evaluation of OL. 

[Mage]

The OL in 2019 wasn't even that bad.  Kyle Allen just sucked.  And Turner and Van Roten, for all of their flaws, is still better than the guard duo we have right now.

[frankw]

19 minutes ago, Mage said:

The OL in 2019 wasn't even that bad.  Kyle Allen just sucked.  And Turner and Van Roten, for all of their flaws, is still better than the guard duo we have right now.

All of this. Darnold is masking deficiencies we basically have one solid starter and the rest are depth though Erving has been ok at times. Paradis however has regressed.

[Mr. Scot]

From what I see, not much.

Mind you, we're not as bad as I thought we'd be, but we definitely need improvement.

Don't necessarily expect to see that until next year although it's possible it could happen down the road if some of our rookies become ready to play.

[Davidson Deac II]

3 hours ago, nosuchthingasapanther said:

when you say not the strength, do you mean not the focus? that's how i see it.

panther fans are accustomed to run focused offenses...i'm pretty sure those days are gone.

We still run the ball a lot.  We are top ten in the league in rushing attempts.  Although part of that is probably due to having leads in the fourth qtr and trying to run out the clock, particularly in the Saints game.  

[SBBlue]

 

2 hours ago, frankw said:

Quote

The OL in 2019 wasn't even that bad.  Kyle Allen just sucked.  And Turner and Van Roten, for all of their flaws, is still better than the guard duo we have right now.

All of this. Darnold is masking deficiencies we basically have one solid starter and the rest are depth though Erving has been ok at times. Paradis however has regressed.

We had 58 sacks in 2019, the absolute worst in the league.  We had 75 hurries in 2019, that was second worst in the league behind the jets who had 76 that year.  We had 3 injured QB's that year.

I'm not sure how anyone can complain about this line this year and then say 2019 wasn't bad.  We are on pace for 34 sacks this year, and that is with an EXTRA game... over 40% lower than 2019.  

 

[frankw]

20 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

 

We had 58 sacks in 2019, the absolute worst in the league.  We had 75 hurries in 2019, that was second worst in the league behind the jets who had 76 that year.  We had 3 injured QB's that year.

I'm not sure how anyone can complain about this line this year and then say 2019 wasn't bad.  We are on pace for 34 sacks this year, and that is with an EXTRA game... over 40% lower than 2019.  

 

The thread is about run blocking. If you wanted to compare all phases why not just say so? That was the same year McCaffrey put up 1k/1k. Pass blocking has been an issue going back years Cam Newton had to work around that and he made some truly awful linemen look partially serviceable . Good quarterbacks can make that happen for you but unfortunately Kyle Allen was not that for us despite the win streak. Right now Sam Darnold is doing that for us but it will only continue to work for so long if the run game can't get going. Even with CMC in we wasted several good drives along the way Sam himself acknowledged we've left points on the board. This line will make or break our season you can move the goal posts all you want but reality is reality.

Edited October 2, 2021 by frankw

[Scott12345]

our run blocking woes are primarily because of our lousy OL

[SBBlue]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I know Elf and Erving haven’t looked great most of their career and Miller has been average at best. So if they were bad on other teams and bad on ours I would say they weren’t evaluated properly, which can fall on the staff. Rhule/Brady have taken players like Robby, Curtis Samuel and arguably Shaq, possibly DJax and they have shown much improvement with their coaching. It looks like they are doing the same with Darnold. OL might be a different story. They missed with Teddy (although some would argue he was sighed to be a stop gap player until we found our guy, but Tepper grew impatient) and Whitehead. I’m curious to see how they do with CJ Henderson.
I think we will have a lot of answers once Brown and Christensen start playing. If they can develop their drafted OL into solid players then I would say it’s not coaching/scheme as much as it is thinking they can make players who are average and below average better every time. If their drafted OL also fail to produce it falls on the coaching/development/evaluation of OL. 

We greatly improved in pass blocking from 2019 to 2020, going from 22nd in pressure% to 10th.  

There is a lot of player overlap.

I'm  really beginning to think its scheme.

[SBBlue]

Just now, Scott12345 said:

our run blocking woes are primarily because of our lousy OL

So why did the lousy OL, with mostly the same players do so much better in 2019?

[Scott12345]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

So why did the lousy OL, with mostly the same players do so much better in 2019?

i know our entire left side was not here...was miller & paradis on the team in 2019?

and what was our 2019 record?