Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Why odd fronts don't work vs the run

lightsout

By lightsout,
in Carolina Panthers

 Share

Recommended Posts

woahfraze Collaborator

woahfraze

Posted
Posted

Part of the reason our run defense was so good in weeks 1 through 3 was due to excellent execution out of odd man fronts.  Check out Brett Kollman's recent video on the subject.  It can work.  But Dallas has a much better offense than the three teams we've played thus far, so our true talent level isn't what we've shown thus far--the numbers weren't sustainable. But more importantly we didn't execute today across the board.  

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Proudiddy Grand Master

Proudiddy

Posted
Posted

Great thread.  You did a much better job breaking it down than I would and the reasons why it caused us problems, but it was clear that it was run fits and gap control dhe to the alignments.  There was a play early where they broke off a long run where right before the snap, I noticed we ran 3 down linemen, and Reddick was aligned to the outside of the tackle and leaned in at an angle...  and right before they snapped it, I felt like it left a lot of real estate in the middle...  the first 3 weeks of the season we were used to bullying the opponent into passing and pinning our ears back when they did.  We also did that in those games because guys were making incredible plays against the run in 1 on 1 situations and attacking downhill.  Today, we missed a ton of tackles, took some bad angles, and just looked sloppy.  We weren't able to force them into passing like we did the teams in weeks 1-3, and it was because we didn't play the run.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lightsout Grand Master

lightsout

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

Great thread.  You did a much better job breaking it down than I would and the reasons why it caused us problems, but it was clear that it was run fits and gap control dhe to the alignments.  There was a play early where they broke off a long run where right before the snap, I noticed we ran 3 down linemen, and Reddick was aligned to the outside of the tackle and leaned in at an angle...  and right before they snapped it, I felt like it left a lot of real estate in the middle...  the first 3 weeks of the season we were used to bullying the opponent into passing and pinning our ears back when they did.  We also did that in those games because guys were making incredible plays against the run in 1 on 1 situations and attacking downhill.  Today, we missed a ton of tackles, took some bad angles, and just looked sloppy.  We weren't able to force them into passing like we did the teams in weeks 1-3, and it was because we didn't play the run.

 

Yeah we were way more multiple in other games too. That's what shocked me, we didn't come out of the odd front. We tried to mask it by rolling under with a 7-3-nose shade to the strength with the backside being head up on guard or even 2i and the backer at a 5. But then weren't getting the linebackers doing their jobs and cutting under blocks rather than fighting across and making the play. And of course they'd just run belly weak off of a motion.

 

Just a complete poo show across the board.

  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Monrowed Grand Master

Monrowed

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Let me just break down why Zeke ate us alive. It's not because we're bad. It's because our game plan was awful. We expected a throwing attack, they didn't give it to us much.

We actually ran a lot of 5 man fronts, but they were shell fronts. We lined up with a nose and two guys lined up at 3tech, with our outside backers walked up on the line. They're boxing on the edge, but that means they're not fighting for inside control and they're not going to be able to squeeze the end man on the line down inside to take away the b/c gap. So you essentially put 3 on 3 inside, hat on a hat. And since they ran so much power and belly, they would just down block and pull the backside guard. This left us utterly out of position and with no bodies to get to the lane. It's easy blocking for Dallas.

 

Same situation with zone schemes. Add in missed tackles/bad decisions by linebackers on angles and gaps to hit, we're looking at roughly 250 yards rushing and a one score game.

 

Despite our OL, despite the refs, despite empty possessions and a turnover, we were within a score and 2 point conversion...if only we had ran more 4 man fronts and not made the run game so easily available.

Thank you for your knowledge of what seemed to be the issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lightsout Grand Master

lightsout

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, hepcat said:

So this is why NFL coordinators call the Panthers defense a college defense?

 

Partly yeah (the coverages were more the reference because of how we could disguise and confuse by rolling guys down and bailing them out). In college and high school, this works very well. Against professional teams that stick to their blocking rules and are good at communicating, it's elementary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

Partly yeah (the coverages were more the reference because of how we could disguise and confuse by rolling guys down and bailing them out). In college and high school, this works very well. Against professional teams that stick to their blocking rules and are good at communicating, it's elementary.

Well that’s not good for Phil Snow going forward I guess 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

Posted
Posted

I went back and looked at the stats on the run defense, man is it bad. The Panthers run defense got absolutely exposed in this game. They need to make some adjustments in game when their odd man fronts start getting beat. Was not having Gross-Matos that big of a loss? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrevorLaurenceTime22 Grand Master

TrevorLaurenceTime22

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I went back and looked at the stats on the run defense, man is it bad. The Panthers run defense got absolutely exposed in this game. They need to make some adjustments in game when their odd man fronts start getting beat. Was not having Gross-Matos that big of a loss? 

I clipped some very very egregious holds on every single one of there long runs I'll post them in a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • tukafan21
      Monday practice tweets

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      I know it's only been training camp and one preseason game, but I think T-Mac has already shown his floor to be exactly what I said about him in the pre-draft process. That his floor if he never improves his game, is as one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL, if not even still a low end #1 (i.e. a 25th-ish best WR in the league). I think it's safe to say he's already established himself as our #1, and there are only a small handful of teams in the league where I don't think he'd be their starting #2 WR in Week 1. Bengals (Higgins), Dolphins (Waddle), Eagles (Smith), Bucs (Godwin if healthy), Rams (Adams) are really the only teams where I think he'd be the #3 as a rookie in Week 1.  A few others like the Lions (Williams), Bears (Odunze), Seahawks (Kupp), Commanders (Deebo), where he'd be the 2b to start the season, just because they're vets and/or already have a year or two of experience with their team/QB. And even having said that, I think by year 2, he's better than every one of those players (And no, I'm not saying he's already going to be better than a prime version of Adams, just whatever he'll be at 33 next year), and same goes for Kupp, but that's more because it seems like his body might be quitting on him in a way that hasn't happened to Adams (yet).
    • tukafan21
      Monday practice tweets

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Well to be fair, Horn not practicing right now to let his stitches heal up from a car accident isn't something that should be concerning.  Sure, you don't want him missing practice leading into the season, but it's one that once healed, won't have lingering affects or fear of re-injuring it, it was just bad luck.
    • UnluckyforSome
      Austin named starting center

      By UnluckyforSome · Posted

      Quality backups are absolutely important. This franchise has been plagued with depth problems. That said, there is a little bit of dismay that Mays can't beat out a 1-legged man, and all the talk going into the off-season was how BC would certainly be gone since he had position versatility.  In the end, it doesn't matter too awfully much, as I would be shocked to no end if Corbett makes it through the season. We know what we have in reserve, and that should surely be better than trying to sign random fat guys mid season to try and take over.
×
×
  • Create New...