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DVOA 2020 vs. 2021 Offense/Defense/Special Teams

kungfoodude

By kungfoodude,
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Snake Grand Master

Snake

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14 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Given the fact that our rushing offense is basically the same as last year(middle of the league), I definitely see why they want to put emphasis on that moving forward. If you look at the 2020 vs. 2021 OL stats on FO, the drop off is pretty bad across the board. 

The passing offense though......woof. 

Yeah and it's not like we have a passing guru or anything. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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2 hours ago, Snake said:

Yeah and it's not like we have a passing guru or anything. 

I have said repeatedly that I think he only shares so much of the blame. His guys are just not executing well at this point. He definitely isn't blameless but often the plays are sound and the players are just not making the plays.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

And I think the new boss there may be the same as the old boss there. I've said it before, Fitterer looks busy but his hit rate is pretty low at this point and really bad when it comes to offensive linemen.

 

I am not sure we have enough data to skewer him too badly, other than the OL. If we see the same in the 2022 offseason, I think we will know what the score is.

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Snake Grand Master

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20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I have said repeatedly that I think he only shares so much of the blame. His guys are just not executing well at this point. He definitely isn't blameless but often the plays are sound and the players are just not making the plays.

His biggest issue isn't the play but the timing of when it's called. Brady is too predictable and doesn't give enough safety valves to his QB. Payton is famous for using schemes where if there isn't anything there you dink and dunk to win. Brady hasn't at this point done the same. Yes the line is crap but scheme wise and play calling wise he hasn't helped and the numbers show. Anderson and Moore are not suddenly bad WRs and he needs to start using what the defense is giving him. 

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Fox007 Grand Master

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11 minutes ago, Snake said:

 Payton is famous for using schemes where if there isn't anything there you dink and dunk to win. 

Not interjecting into the overall back and forth here just chiming in to say this is something that is almost always overlooked when it comes to Mr. Vicodin and even plays that Manning would check into. He even had a commercial about Dallas Clark...he also knows the importance of the short route/hot option/check down.

Vicodin has routes to threaten all levels. Check downs are only a problem if it's the only thing your QB can do.

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bigdavis Rising Star

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Re: Offensive DVOA:

So much media and fan attention is paid to college success of RBs and QBs (Heisman hype), but in the pros, RBs become fungible properties, and QBs are hit or miss (as a thousand threads here have shown.)

I'm sure I don't know how to do it, but pro scouts and GMs are paid to, so they sure should -- I'm talking about the evaluation of blockers, the true determiners of so many Wins and losses in the NFL.

If there's not a hole, not many great RBs will make one himself.  If there's not 3 seconds of pocket protection, not many QBs will succeed in passing, either.

The OL may not be glamorous, or even identifiable to the average fan.  But it's the backbone of winning, and our "brain trust" better emphasize it next year, better than they have so far.

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mav1234 Grand Master

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With a good OL, almost any RB and QB can look decent. Without an OL, you rely on incredible talent, like CMC.  Scheme can make up for a bad OL to an extent too, especially with the right outlet options...

It's been clear the last few weeks we are really missing a competent receiving option in our backfield.  I love Hubbard in many ways but he's a liability in the passing game.  

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Snake Grand Master

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56 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

Not interjecting into the overall back and forth here just chiming in to say this is something that is almost always overlooked when it comes to Mr. Vicodin and even plays that Manning would check into. He even had a commercial about Dallas Clark...he also knows the importance of the short route/hot option/check down.

Vicodin has routes to threaten all levels. Check downs are only a problem if it's the only thing your QB can do.

Exactly. But if you don't run check downs or safely valves you get into big trouble. Especially when you QB is young and not ready to run audibles to the entire play. 

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Snake Grand Master

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57 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

Not interjecting into the overall back and forth here just chiming in to say this is something that is almost always overlooked when it comes to Mr. Vicodin and even plays that Manning would check into. He even had a commercial about Dallas Clark...he also knows the importance of the short route/hot option/check down.

Vicodin has routes to threaten all levels. Check downs are only a problem if it's the only thing your QB can do.

Exactly. But if you don't run check downs or safely valves you get into big trouble. Especially when you QB is young and not ready to run audibles to the entire play. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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7 hours ago, Snake said:

His biggest issue isn't the play but the timing of when it's called. Brady is too predictable and doesn't give enough safety valves to his QB. Payton is famous for using schemes where if there isn't anything there you dink and dunk to win. Brady hasn't at this point done the same. Yes the line is crap but scheme wise and play calling wise he hasn't helped and the numbers show. Anderson and Moore are not suddenly bad WRs and he needs to start using what the defense is giving him. 

That does happen sometimes but there have been a lot of guys open that Darnold is either not seeing(which could be later in the progressions, so that isn't as big of a deal) but he is also late with the ball. That isn't uncommon.

Like I said, I have plenty of criticisms about Brady but I think the OL and QB are bigger reasons why we are struggling on offense.

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Snake Grand Master

Snake

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2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That does happen sometimes but there have been a lot of guys open that Darnold is either not seeing(which could be later in the progressions, so that isn't as big of a deal) but he is also late with the ball. That isn't uncommon.

Like I said, I have plenty of criticisms about Brady but I think the OL and QB are bigger reasons why we are struggling on offense.

They all go hand in hand. Seriously how many years did people bitch about Cam being late with the ball and missing guys? The reason he was missing people is because he was running for his life in a system that was basic as hell. One year Shula came up with a half decent scheme and he won MVP and we went to the SB. We would have won that game if would have had a good OL. My point is you have to have at least two out if three to be competitive and we don't. 

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

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7 minutes ago, Snake said:

They all go hand in hand. Seriously how many years did people bitch about Cam being late with the ball and missing guys? The reason he was missing people is because he was running for his life in a system that was basic as hell. One year Shula came up with a half decent scheme and he won MVP and we went to the SB. We would have won that game if would have had a good OL. My point is you have to have at least two out if three to be competitive and we don't. 

 

No doubt. I am certainly not trying aggressively to come to Brady's defense. I just think he is the #3 in the list of problems we have offensively. 

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Fox007 Grand Master

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11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

No doubt. I am certainly not trying aggressively to come to Brady's defense. I just think he is the #3 in the list of problems we have offensively. 

Na you just been talking football normally bringing up valid points.

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