Pats have discussed a trade for Robby Anderson with the Panthers at the combine...

[45catfan]

Just now, frankw said:

If you're defending Fitterer you aren't helping him with comparisons like this. We could have hired anyone to be a yes man even a huddler here.

Not defending, simply stating the football ops structure.  You don't give a NFL novice HC control over full roster decisions and hire a GM with deference to said newbie HC.  You're correct, at that point the GM is a "yes man" to a large degree.  I doubt Rhule had his final say powers stripped by Tepper, but knowing he's on a short leash, Rhule had better make this a true collective effort.  I mean, If Rhule and staff are canned at the end of the season, Fitt could make a case for staying as Tepper knows full and well he neutered the GM position by giving Rhule full roster control.

[frankw]

9 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Not defending, simply stating the football ops structure.  You don't give a NFL novice HC control over full roster decisions and hire a GM with deference to said newbie HC.  You're correct, at that point the GM is a "yes man" to a large degree.  I doubt Rhule had his final say powers stripped by Tepper, but knowing he's on a short leash, Rhule had better make this a true collective effort.  I mean, If Rhule and staff are canned at the end of the season, Fitt could make a case for staying as Tepper knows full and well he neutered the GM position by giving Rhule full roster control.

Oh we agree Rhule should never have been given final say. But at the same time if none of this works out there are plenty of other GM candidates out there we can interview who are not interested in just being a yes man. And let's just be plain about this. There are things that could have and should have been said about that Darnold deal before it all went down and anyone who didn't speak up honestly shouldn't be in charge of a lemonade stand.

[45catfan]

21 minutes ago, frankw said:

After all the years of you and others rightfully blasting Marty Hurney into oblivion for his mismanagement it is tough to watch the mental gymnastics now just because you like the new GM on a personal level. None of that can change the fact he was directly involved in the Sam Darnold trade which will go down as one of the worst in years for any team. These guys are paid the big bucks to evaluate talent.

I neither like nor dislike Fitt, the jury is still out for me.  The structure he walk into put him behind the eight ball is all I am stating. 

Simply put, this is like a company that moved on from it's long time head executive.  They promote some young, mid-management guy to lead the company with a super-thin resume, but the board likes his moxie.  To help the guy along they bring a guy in from another company who was a former CEO to wet nurse the newbie, but tells him "look, help the new CEO along, but all final decisions are his."  Does that sound like a favorable situation to be in? 

When Hurney was canned, I don't remember candidates busting down Tepper's door for the opportunity to be the GM here.  Why?  The Panthers weren't a complete joke...yet.  Why would people be hesitant to take a NFL GM job?  Why did they conveniently make an offer to the one candidate that worked under the same football ops structure in Seattle (HC with full roster control)?

While Fitt is not blameless in all this, Rhule is the ringleader of this poo show and it reflects on the whole organization.

Edited March 6, 2022 by 45catfan

[LinvilleGorge]

35 minutes ago, frankw said:

After all the years of you and others rightfully blasting Marty Hurney into oblivion for his mismanagement it is tough to watch the mental gymnastics now just because you like the new GM on a personal level. None of that can change the fact he was directly involved in the Sam Darnold trade which will go down as one of the worst in years for any team. These guys are paid the big bucks to evaluate talent.

Hurney Derangement Syndrome. As long as it's not Hurney it's good and to be defended no matter what. These people still think Gettleman was brilliant. 

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

At this point we don’t really know how much say Fitt had. I just think QB and OL were such big misses in FA and draft that I don’t see any signs that Fitt did anything good. I mean if you can’t sway Rhule to take Smith over a long snapper that’s a problem because you believe that Erving and Elflein were solutions, Brown was worth being a project and that OL is no big deal or your balls are so small that you won’t even argue your point.

We also still have the Thomas deal which was done after Rhule was supposedly neutered. Where’s our salary cap guru in all this as well?

Again, if you saw the draft video, Fitt was facilitating the trades, making sure the value was there and Rhule was the trigger man.  Rhule let his WIFE make a pick for crying out loud.  Apparently Rhule had a bro-mance with the LS at the Senior Bowl. That was another 100% Rhule pick.  Do you think Fitt was going to be like, "Matt, fug your wife's choice and your LS crush from the Senior Bowl"?

Edited March 6, 2022 by 45catfan

[Toomers]

30 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Eh, it’s not that bad. If they get rid of Agholor they save $5M in cap and $10M in real cash in 2022. That means without finagling Anderson’s contract, they would have $8M more cap hit and $3M more real cash hit in 2022. Robby with Sam was still better than Agholor. If they feel Robby can be 2020 Robby, those 2022 increases are more than worth it.

Pay 3-8M more for a player in Anderson who produced 46 more yards in 46 more targets? And give up draft picks to do that? I don’t see that happening. With 8M of RAs base salary guaranteed, he could starting pouting again and they would be on the hook for that if they wanted to let him go. Agholor was every bit as good last year and in 2020. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

After all the years of you and others rightfully blasting Marty Hurney into oblivion for his mismanagement it is tough to watch the mental gymnastics now just because you like the new GM on a personal level. None of that can change the fact he was directly involved in the Sam Darnold trade which will go down as one of the worst in years for any team. These guys are paid the big bucks to evaluate talent.

Marty had final say on the roster.

As far as "a personal level" I don't know jack about Fitterer. What I do know is he has over 20 years of scouting experience. Marty had exactly zero.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[frankw]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Marty had final say on the roster.

As far as "a personal level" I don't know jack about Fitterer. What I do know is he has over 20 years of scouting experience. Marty had exactly zero.

Fair point. But that experience does not always equate to success. Dave Gettleman had scouting experience dating back to mid eighties and he was still fired from two GM positions with the second one definitely not going well at all. Just a few bad decisions can sink a ship that's the business.

[BurnNChinn]

Cmon NE please take him!

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

Fair point. But that experience does not always equate to success. Dave Gettleman had scouting experience dating back to mid eighties and he was still fired from two GM positions with the second one definitely not going well at all. Just a few bad decisions can sink a ship that's the business.

Pairing has a lot to do with it.

Rivera-Gettleman worked. Rivera-Hurney didn't. Neither did Fox-Hurney, Rhule-Hurney or Pretty Much Anybody-Hurney.

Wouldn't bet on seeing any successful pairings with Matt Rhule either, at least not at the pro level.

[MechaZain]

Think Robby will bounce back I just don't know if he fits in our timeline looking for a QB, so I'm ok with exploring this. His heart wasn't in it last year and I honestly don't blame him considering the state of the offense.

[45catfan]

14 minutes ago, BurnNChinn said:

Cmon NE please take him!

NE is missing a 5th rounder and 7th rounder.  I doubt they give up their 3rd or 4th straight up for Robby and shorten their draft even further.  Maybe we get their 3rd and they get Robby and one of our 5th rounders?

[frankw]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pairing has a lot to do with it.

Rivera-Gettleman worked. Rivera-Hurney didn't. Neither did Fox-Hurney, Rhule-Hurney or Pretty Much Anybody-Hurney.

Wouldn't bet on seeing any successful pairings with Matt Rhule either, at least not at the pro level.

Valid. But in relation to DG you could argue it did and then it didn't. The unraveling of a Super Bowl team began with the 2016 offseason and man did we blow it and Dave was the biggest part of that personnel wise. On the coaching end I don't think enough can be said about the loss of McDermott and Ron hiring and promoting his pals.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Valid. But in relation to DG you could argue it did and then it didn't. The unraveling of a Super Bowl team began with the 2016 offseason and man did we blow it and Dave was the biggest part of that personnel wise. On the coaching end I don't think enough can be said about the loss of McDermott and Ron hiring and promoting his pals.

Things were on the upswing in 2017 when he was fired. Of course that was a Richardson move so he could bring Marty back, so

As far as the Giants, neither Gettleman-Shurmur nor Gettleman-Judge produced anything much.