Sign Armstead and draft Tyler Linderbaum

[EgoDogg]

4 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

Of course it isn't, but it's a pretty big wart on the resume of a guy who doesn't play a premier position when you're drafting 6th overall. Your argument is silly. 

Nothing silly about my argument. You should absolutely take measurables into account for sure, but shouldn't dismiss a guy purely based off it. That's how you miss out on guys like Rashawn Slater.

Imagine if the Bengals passed on Burrow because of his 'Tiny hands'

Edited March 15, 2022 by EgoDogg

[KatsAzz]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

This idiotic team won't have a  pick to take him with. They want their QB this year.so bad they'll trade the tram away.

Tepper  is nothing if not irrational. and rhule  is desperate. And they are both ignorant.

You are 100% correct. To have a irrational owner and a desperate head coach is a sure recipe for disaster.

[Gladniator1]

2 hours ago, Smittymoose said:

The number of people who want to draft a tiny center at #6 overall is amazing to me. He should be nowhere near Carolina's board unless there's a trade back of 10+ picks.

Well, my dream scenario is for us to trade back from #6, grab a mid-round 1st use that on whichever OT/DE drops (if any or even Linderbaum if he's still there) and use the extra picks to get good Guards in the 2nd/3rd.  I'd trade back again if we got some significant picks in the 2-3 range which could be used to shore up the o-line.  We're just not going to do poo with a crap line and Watson will not fix that.

Strong offensive lines get you:

1. That first down on 3rd and 2.

2. Time of Possession so your young defense is not tired and giving their offense hell running all over the place.

3. Protection for whichever QB game manager is put in there for a year.

4. Holes for smallish RB's to exploit without getting creamed at the line of scrimmage.

[Smittymoose]

5 minutes ago, EgoDogg said:

Nothing silly about my argument. You should absolutely take measurables into account for sure, but shouldn't dismiss a guy purely based off it. That's how you miss out on guys like Rashawn Slater.

Imagine if the Bengals passed on Burrow because of his 'Tiny hands'

His hands hit the adequate threshold, first off.

Second off, let's let Slater get more than a year under his belt before we crown his ass. Know who else looked really good as a rookie LT? Matt Kalil. But beyond that, he plays the toughest position other than QB to find legitimate young talent in LT. Like QB, your risk tolerance at LT needs to be a lot higher than it does at a position like C. 

[EgoDogg]

Just now, Smittymoose said:

His hands hit the adequate threshold, first off.

Second off, let's let Slater get more than a year under his belt before we crown his ass. Know who else looked really good as a rookie LT? Matt Kalil. But beyond that, he plays the toughest position other than QB to find legitimate young talent in LT. Like QB, your risk tolerance at LT needs to be a lot higher than it does at a position like C. 

I don't want to hijack the thread anymore since I don't think we'll be in agreement on this, but appreciate the back-and-forth debate.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

Ryan kalil never won a single game for this team

What kind of standard is that for an o-lineman?  Can you point to an example of any LT in the history of football "winning a game" for his team?  I guess you would argue that Anthony Munoz and Jonathan Ogden were terrible draft picks at 3rd and 4th overall because they never single-handedly won a game for their teams.

I don't even want Linderbaum at 6th but that's a silly argument because that would exclude any LT as well.

[TheCasillas]

https://www.playpennsylvania.com/deshaun-watson-next-team-odds/

 

follow the money 

[SCO96]

44 minutes ago, Growl said:

not drafting a center at 6 overall doesn’t mean you have a bad offensive line, I’m not sure where this false equivalency is coming from

colts fans are stupid and their team is stupid

players like josh Allen, mike mcglinchey, minkah Fitzpatrick, and vita vea all went shortly after nelson. Quinton Nelson will never add a single win to the colts w/l total.

yes, you absolutely take a CB or DT over a center with the 6th pick on the draft. Better to have an abundance of riches at a high impact position than to acquire a low impact position you could’ve solidified for pennies on the dollar in free agency.

 

 

Football is a team game. No one player wins the game without the other team members doing their job. Tom Brady has thrown over 600 TD passes. I've never seen him catch one those passes or block an incoming d-lineman while in the pocket.

O-lineman have a profound impact on games. I'm old enough to remember the Redskins play in 4 Super Bowls from 1982-1991, winning 3 of them. Joe Gibbs won with 3 different QB's Theisman, Williams, Rypien) and 3 different starting RB's Riggins, Timmy Smith, Ernest Byner). The one constant on those teams was the O-line. Bostic, Jacoby, Grimm, Mark May, etc.

I understand the cost analyst arguement. I understand the desire to trade back. Thing is, based on the way the FA signings are going, I don't think anyone is going to want to trade up to #6. If the LT we want isn't there, I wouldn't fault the team for picking the center especially since we won't pick again until round 4. With the new OL coach, new RG, BC at LT, and the best Center to come out in almost a decade...we could have the best O-line in the NFC for the next 3-5 years.

Then again, none of this will matter if we get Watson. If we do, we know we won't be holding on to the 6th choice in the first round.

 

[Growl]

6 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

 

O-lineman have a profound impact on games. I'm old enough to remember the Redskins play in 4 Super Bowls from 1982-1991, winning 3 of them. Joe Gibbs won with 3 different QB's Theisman, Williams, Rypien) and 3 different starting RB's Riggins, Timmy Smith, Ernest Byner). The one constant on those teams was the O-line. Bostic, Jacoby, Grimm, Mark May, etc.

 

 

This is probably the problem. The game isn’t what it was then. Nobody’s trying to build a unit of FIVE HOGS who can WEAR THEM DOWN.

centers don’t posses that value especially, and again, not forgoing a more valuable position elsewhere doesn’t equate to “it’s a one man show!” as some try to misrepresent the argument.

It’s about opportunity cost. You aren’t getting an elite QB, or pass rusher, or pass defender, for pennies in free agency. You can get strong iOL play for a deflated cost.

 

[Growl]

15 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

What kind of standard is that for an o-lineman?  Can you point to an example of any LT in the history of football "winning a game" for his team?  I guess you would argue that Anthony Munoz and Jonathan Ogden were terrible draft picks at 3rd and 4th overall because they never single-handedly won a game for their teams.

I don't even want Linderbaum at 6th but that's a silly argument because that would exclude any LT as well.

LTs, though they have diminished in value themselves, are still expensive to acquire outside the draft if you want quality play. Centers and guards are not. Im not forgoing that reality to take a guy who will have such an ultimately nominal contribution to my team. Even RBs could be argued to be far more worth the selection given that at the very least a player like McCaffery can win a game. It’s still not a good idea to take a RB in the 1st round. But if you’re going to try and reduce the more complex process that is the draft to “I just want a good player,” then I’m at least burning the pick for someone who can make a major contribution.
 

 Centers don’t even meet that second rung of decision making. Taking one there is that bad an idea.

[Growl]

The panthers would quite literally be better off with linderbaum going to the falcons or saints or buccaneers so as to avoid those team drafting a player who the coaching staff actually had to account for when they play.

The ideal scenario for the panthers is linderbaum going to an nfc south rival.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Growl

[DTD]

2 hours ago, Smittymoose said:

That's cute, but Ryan Kalil wouldn't be worth the 6th overall pick either, even if there was a guarantee he'd be that good. 

Really? The same year Kalil was drafted the #6 pick was LaRon Landry with Washington. I would rather have had Kalil than Landry. In the top 10 the goals it to pick a player that can be All Pro at their position. 

[Smittymoose]

2 minutes ago, DTD said:

Really? The same year Kalil was drafted the #6 pick was LaRon Landry with Washington. I would rather have had Kalil than Landry. In the top 10 the goals it to pick a player that can be All Pro at their position. 

Really. Landry was a good player, but I find it similarly difficult to justify a safety in the top 10. Not like the Redskins are a paragon of great drafting over the last 20 years. 

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, EgoDogg said:

Let's compare combine numbers....

Tyler Linderbaum Combine Numbers

• 6'2"
• 296 pounds
• 31 1/8 arms
• 10" hands

Ryan Kalil Combine Numbers

• 6'2"
• 299 pounds
• 31 1/2 arms
• 10" hands

Let's leave it to Matt Rhule to get too caught up in those numbers. If Linderbaum can be the next Ryan Kalil for us for the next decade, I have no problem with him at #6. I would also be fine with one of the top LT's at #6, and picking up (Browns former Center) JC Tretter if possible.

The issue is that you have our staff and FO evaluating OL. Have you seen any indication whatsoever they know how to do that? I haven't.