Rich Eisen on Pelissero's QB piece

[KatsAzz]

12 hours ago, MHS831 said:

My gut:

Pickett will probably bust.   Maybe I am being convinced because he has been under the microscope for too long---I dunno.

MHS's Big Board as of today 4/22

• Ikwonu
• Neal
• Cross
• TRADE BACK
• Hutchinson
• Thibodeaux
• Willis

Bingo!! Get a good LT and build a line to assure the QB we eventually get has a decent chance to succeed.

[micnificent28]

9 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Was Cam Newton as much of a gamble as johnny Manziel?

It's literally the same thing. You were highly against cam then just like most of the talking heads. A lot of people said don't take him in the first round and he wasn't even the number qb1 In the class. He came from a gimmicky offense (Willis as well) was looked at and a running qb who was a one read and run. 

Now difference is he was 6'6 250 but still was a boom or bust pick. Also we arent picking first so willis isnt as large a gamble. But he has been mocked as hugh as 2 off his potential. He has a similar running style to cam but smaller. I think Willis is a more accurate passer than cam at this stage.

Edited April 23, 2022 by micnificent28

[micnificent28]

The worst thing we can do is pick Pickett.  

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Bigger since he went #1 overall and Manziel went 22nd overall.

And there's a reason why.

13 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

It's literally the same thing. You were highly against cam then just like most of the talking heads. A lot of people said don't take him in the first round and he wasn't even the number qb1 In the class. He came from a gimmicky offense (Willis as well) was looked at and a running qb who was a one read and run. 

Now difference is he was 6'6 250 but still was a boom or bust pick. Also we arent picking first so willis isnt as large a gamble. But he has been mocked as hugh as 2 off his potential. He has a similar running style to cam but smaller. I think Willis is a more accurate passer than cam at this stage.

You didn't really answer my question.

Putting it another way, did Newton have as big a risk of failing as Manziel did?

[micnificent28]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And there's a reason why.

You didn't really answer my question.

Putting it another way, did Newton have as big a risk of failing as Manziel did?

Also hard to compare the two. Newton had all world tools. Dangerous runner. Manziel I see as more the guys you brought up rodger the dodger, Tarkenton, guys who could move well behind the line of scrimmage. Manziel had a decent arm,  I guess like Pickett or Mayfield. Manziel reminded me a lot of Mayfield or visa versa rather. Ran a 4.7 not the same level of rushing ability as Willis.  

Manziel was picked at 22. I don't think his risk was as high as cam because we picked at 1 with cam. But his upside wasn't nearly as high as cams either. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Also hard to compare the two. Newton had all world tools. Dangerous runner. Manziel I see as more the guys you brought up rodger the dodger, Tarkenton, guys who could move well behind the line of scrimmage. Manziel had a decent arm,  I guess like Pickett or Mayfield. Manziel reminded me a lot of Mayfield or visa versa rather. Ran a 4.7 not the same level of rushing ability as Willis.  

Manziel was picked at 22. I don't think his risk was as high as cam because we picked at 1 with cam. But his upside wasn't nearly as high as cams either. 

Which is the point.

It's not as simple as "every pick is a gamble". Risk-reward varies wildly from prospect to prospect, and it's not strictly related to position.

[micnificent28]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Which is the point.

It's not as simple as "every pick is a gamble". Risk-reward varies wildly from prospect to prospect, and it's not strictly related to position.

If you want to nitpick it. But who's to say any of the tackles are a sure thing? Every player you pick has a chance to miss. Everyone was sure Derrick brown was the safest defensive tackle in years. He is looking kinda meh... Erick fisher the went number 1 to the chiefs, Luke joeckel to the jags.

 

Greg Robinson... I mean offensive tackles are almost as dangerous as qbs in terms of bust rate. Few of them turn out as advertised excluding the last class or 2. Wirfs class looked really good. And the guys last year. Tackle can be a crap shoot as well. But I get your point.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

If you want to nitpick it. But who's to say any of the tackles are a sure thing? Every player you pick has a chance to miss. Everyone was sure Derrick brown was the safest defensive tackle in years. He is looking kinda meh... Erick fisher the went number 1 to the chiefs, Luke joeckel to the jags.

Greg Robinson... I mean offensive tackles are almost as dangerous as qbs in terms of bust rate. Few of them turn out as advertised excluding the last class or 2. Wirfs class looked really good. And the guys last year. Tackle can be a crap shoot as well. But I get your point.

The same people who say Willis has upside.

[davos]

You gotta look at what you can do with these prospects. Per reports and by all accounts, Malik and Ridder seem to have convinced many that they can be a formidable piece for a successful team. Maybe Howell as well. Willis is the only with superstar potential, which is arguable.

If you identified your guy at QB, then you get him. It doesn’t sound like we’ve done that. And it makes sense because none of these guys look THAT awesome. Ridder and Malik intrigue me but considering the scenario, it’s a risk to bring them in with Rhule’s fall.

Ekwonu and Cross are the likely dudes. If word that the Giants have Cross as their #1, then we’re going to be in position for a top talent or something like a SEA/BAL trade down.

I’d prefer a trade down—not to try and get some QB later but to hopefully gain 2023 capital and stay near the top14ish to land a great talent. We need offense in a league driven by offense. Hell, I’d be game for Jameson or G Wilson if that’s what it takes.

Edited April 23, 2022 by davos

[OldhamA]

13 hours ago, jayflip said:

I’m firmly in the draft a high upside QB and swing for the fences camp. Willis all day. Even if it’s somehow Willis, Icky and Neal available when we’re picking. 

Prior post regarding Joe Thomas and the browns was spot fuging on. 
 

 

The Browns built their roster and were able to win with Baker Mayfield (hint, he's not very good) - so the exact same franchise adds weight to both arguments. 

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

Also hard to compare the two. Newton had all world tools. Dangerous runner. Manziel I see as more the guys you brought up rodger the dodger, Tarkenton, guys who could move well behind the line of scrimmage. Manziel had a decent arm,  I guess like Pickett or Mayfield. Manziel reminded me a lot of Mayfield or visa versa rather. Ran a 4.7 not the same level of rushing ability as Willis.  

Manziel was picked at 22. I don't think his risk was as high as cam because we picked at 1 with cam. But his upside wasn't nearly as high as cams either. 

Manziel was a bad pick from the get go - he won with bullshit backyard football plays that simply wouldn't fly in the NFL.

I'm amazed Murray gets away with it so often in Arizona to be honest, but then he's much more athletic than Johnny Football.

I didn't like the Newton pick, but he did pretty much single-handedly drag two College programmes to National Championships, so we're comparing apples to oranges.

[The Huddler]

16 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I mean if I'm going to gamble Willis upside.

nah thats bullshit

 

pickett could beat him in a straight line race and Willis was dodging scrubs that make him look more mobile than he is

[micnificent28]

15 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Manziel was a bad pick from the get go - he won with bullshit backyard football plays that simply wouldn't fly in the NFL.

I'm amazed Murray gets away with it so often in Arizona to be honest, but then he's much more athletic than Johnny Football.

I didn't like the Newton pick, but he did pretty much single-handedly drag two College programmes to National Championships, so we're comparing apples to oranges.

I get what your saying. But to get away with the" backyard footall anticks" as you say you have to be an above average athlete by NFL standards.  Running slower than a 4.55 area you won't be able to really get it done in today's NFL. Kyler  has around sub 4.5 speed so he can run away from most defenders.

He's also a pretty gifted passer. Johnny at a 4.7 isn't running away from defensive linemen or linebackers seeing as how a defensive tackle at 340 Jordan Davis just ran a 4.7. 

[micnificent28]

1 minute ago, The Huddler said:

nah thats bullshit

 

pickett could beat him in a straight line race and Willis was dodging scrubs that make him look more mobile than he is

No he couldn't. Did you watch the senior bowl? He ran away from those guys as well and they were NFL caliber with some first rounders. They even have their timed field speed and Willis was moving at least 2-4 miles per hour faster than the next fastest qb who was not Pickett.  Yall need to stop playing with Willis speed.