Baker Mayfield watch

[Sgt Schultz]

41 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I don't think Grier or PJ were meant to be starters.  Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson etc didn't start week one and came in later in the season as a starter.  It's what the NIners are trying to do with Lance, the Titans with Willis. 

When a QB is drafted high on a bad team they most likely start week one, and most likely in a bad situaiton.  If that same QB is drafted high by a good team, he may well find himself sitting for a while until they believe he is ready (see Lance).  One team has the luxury of patience while the other is too busy chasing the situation.

The biggest adjustment for young QBs is that the NFL game is speed.  The DBs they will face on any given week are better and faster than the best DBs most of these guys faced in college.  The other difference that is related to speed is that most college QBs wait for the receiver to get open.  In the NFL, they are usually throwing in anticipation of the receiver getting open unless he clearly will not during the read, because he won't be open for very long. 

Quick mental processing (or perhaps even slow) and learning to anticipate (and who you can anticipate with) is exactly what Darnold does not do, and given his style he probably was never going to learn from the bench, from the field, from anywhere.

You can add Brady to the list of QBs who didn't start right away, and had Bledsoe not gotten hurt who knows if or when we would have seen Brady.

Then there is the case of New England and Jones.  Hoodie has always adapted his schemes (offense or defense) to fit what he has.  He doesn't generally abandon the scheme, but he does modify it.  In the case of Jones, they do what he can do and gradually increasing that as the season wears on and he can handle it.  One would conclude this falls under development, although maybe it is just slowing things down until the player adapts to the NFL.

Problem is, most teams do not do that.  They throw them into the deep end when it doesn't work, the response is to keep doing it until it does until something has to give. 

I could be off base here, but I have always thought DCs are a lot better at adapting to their talent than OCs, who tend to be more of the mindset that we are going to do this their way or else.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sgt Schultz

[The Huddler]

its annoying i gotta sift through diabetus neck beards arguing to find any actual news or updates.  

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

When a QB is drafted high on a bad team they most likely start week one, and most likely in a bad situaiton.  If that same QB is drafted high by a good team, he may well find himself sitting for a while until they believe he is ready (see Lance).  One team has the luxury of patience while the other is too busy chasing the situation.

The biggest adjustment for young QBs is that the NFL game is speed.  The DBs they will face on any given week are better and faster than the best DBs most of these guys faced in college.  The other difference that is related to speed is that most college QBs wait for the receiver to get open.  In the NFL, they are usually throwing in anticipation of the receiver getting open unless he clearly will not during the read, because he won't be open for very long. 

Quick mental processing (or perhaps even slow) and learning to anticipate (and who you can anticipate with) is exactly what Darnold does not do, and given his style he probably was never going to learn from the bench, from the field, from anywhere.

You can add Brady to the list of QBs who didn't start right away, and had Bledsoe not gotten hurt who knows if or when we would have seen Brady.

Then there is the case of New England and Jones.  Hoodie has always adapted his schemes (offense or defense) to fit what he has.  He doesn't generally abandon the scheme, but he does modify it.  In the case of Jone, they do what he can do and gradually increasing that as the season wears on and he can handle it.  One would conclude this falls under development, although maybe it is just slowing things down until the player adapts to the NFL.

Problem is, most teams do not do that.  They throw them into the deep end when it doesn't work, the response is to keep doing it until it does until something has to give. 

I could be off base here, but I have always thought DCs are a lot better at adapting to their talent than OCs, who tend to be more of the mindset that we are going to do this their way or else.

That's what I call the lottery ticket approach.

"Oh this one wasn't a winner? Okay, let's just buy another ticket"

Or you could, you know, actually try to coach them up and build a better team around them.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

its annoying i gotta sift through diabetus neck beards arguing to find any actual news or updates.  

They typically make a new thread when actual news breaks.

[Sgt Schultz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's what I call the lottery ticket approach.

"Oh this one wasn't a winner? Okay, let's just buy another ticket"

Or you could, you know, actually try to coach them up and build a better team around them.

For most coaching staffs, it is a lottery approach.  Part of the lottery is whether any of their QBs work out (see Cleveland's history).  The other part is when their next job will come.

Actually doing what I characterize as Hoodie's approach in New England, nah.

Unfortunately, for most of the last four or five years we have been buying lottery tickets.

[FuFuLamePoo]

I just don't see how trading a future late day three pick for Baker Mayfield is the same as what we did for Darnold. Darnold had never been good when we traded for him, and we gave up a second and a fourth. Baker literally won a game in the playoffs a year ago. Of course that Cleveland roster is better than what we have now, but I just get sick to my stomach thinking about having to watch Sam Darnold again. They're not going to be bad enough for CJ or Bryce even with Sam I don't think. If CMC can stay healthy, with some Dont'a sprinkled in, behind a revamped offensive line we might could do a passable 2020 Browns impersonation on O. I just can't stomach to watch Darnold again, and Corral was the 94th overall pick. There are like two occasions of a dude being taken in that range and performing as a rookie.

I hope this happens. Doesn't seem like much of a risk and increases our chances of being competitive.

[kungfoodude]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And smart couches like Andy Reid and others have done the opposite.

As mentioned before, I don't think either one is a universal answer. I think you have to take into account the player, the coach, the team around them and other things to decide what's best.

And yes, sometimes it's to sit.

Well Reid also played McNabb quite a bit in his rookie year. I wouldn't say that has much to do with Reid's personal philosophy as much as the fact that he had a very solid veteran QB that was coming off a Pro Bowl year(also had a Pro Bowl appearance in Mahomes rookie season).

It's always going to be hard to justify putting a literal Pro Bowl QB on the bench. Take a look at Rodgers, as well. What kept him on the bench? HOFer Brett Favre.

Guess what kept Rivers on the bench? HOFer Drew Brees. Guess what kept Tom Brady on the bench? Drew Bledsoe.

So, the "on the bench" scenario for good QB's is almost exclusively because there was another great QB on the roster at the time.

That's also what smarter teams do. Not abandon drafting QB's because you have one.

[trueblade]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Eh....we will see. Anything above a 5th and I am not gonna be pleased. 1st to 3rd round should be completely off the table. 4th if they take Darnold and all his salary.

We already don't have a third round pick. Under that scenario we don't have a fourth either. I'd prefer we keep our picks but as I like to say, it ain't my decision.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, trueblade said:

We already don't have a third round pick. Under that scenario we don't have a fourth either. I'd prefer we keep our picks but as I like to say, it ain't my decision.

I was factoring in future picks, as well, but valid point.

[trueblade]

I understand fans thinking short term and only of the misery or joy of the upcoming season. You're gaining (at most) two additional wins by acquiring Mayfield. 

But I expect the from office to think long term. I expect the front office to understand they need to get a solid evaluation of Corral to inform the best decision in next year's draft. That means you've got to see Corral with game speed reps, and with the our team having spent the entire week preparing for him. Trading for Mayfield will not accomplish that.

[Happy Panther]

A fifth round pick and the Browns take most of his salary sounds delicious to me.

[Mr. Scot]

34 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well Reid also played McNabb quite a bit in his rookie year. I wouldn't say that has much to do with Reid's personal philosophy as much as the fact that he had a very solid veteran QB that was coming off a Pro Bowl year(also had a Pro Bowl appearance in Mahomes rookie season).

It's always going to be hard to justify putting a literal Pro Bowl QB on the bench. Take a look at Rodgers, as well. What kept him on the bench? HOFer Brett Favre.

Guess what kept Rivers on the bench? HOFer Drew Brees. Guess what kept Tom Brady on the bench? Drew Bledsoe.

So, the "on the bench" scenario for good QB's is almost exclusively because there was another great QB on the roster at the time.

That's also what smarter teams do. Not abandon drafting QB's because you have one.

The Drew Brees that kept Philip Rivers on the bench was hardly "hall of famer" Drew Brees. He was dumped by the Chargers not long after.

And again, a lot of guys who do end up starting don't do so because it's in the plans. Heck, look at Brady.

As I've said all along, either strategy can work. What the smart guys do isn't limited to one approach. They evaluate the situation.

The bad, dumb or desperate teams always want the rookie to start whether it's best or not.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[TheSpecialJuan]

BAKER MAYFIELDQB, CLEVELAND BROWNS

CBS Sports' Jonathan Jones reports there's "urgency on Carolina's side" to trade for Baker Mayfield soon. 

The sticking point in the trade talks, per Jones, is Mayfield's salary and how much of it the Browns will eat to get him out of Cleveland. The Panthers would like to get Mayfield acclimated with the team's offensive system during minicamps, well before the crunch time of training camp. Mayfield would be a clear upgrade over Sam Darnold, who was miserable as Carolina's starter in 2021. Despite a poor, injury-marred 2021 campaign, Mayfield's 2020 season showed he can be a passable game manager in the NFL. Everyone in the Carolina offense, especially D.J. Moore and Robbie Anderson, would get a fantasy bump with Mayfield under center in 2022. 

[kungfoodude]

25 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I understand fans thinking short term and only of the misery or joy of the upcoming season. You're gaining (at most) two additional wins by acquiring Mayfield. 

But I expect the from office to think long term. I expect the front office to understand they need to get a solid evaluation of Corral to inform the best decision in next year's draft. That means you've got to see Corral with game speed reps, and with the our team having spent the entire week preparing for him. Trading for Mayfield will not accomplish that.

I am not sure that the FO is sold on Corral long term(after all, they waited until the late 3rd). My guess is probably not. He's an option among many(including trading for Mayfield). 

I have no issue seeing Corral start the whole year or Mayfield. As long as it's just not Sam Darnold, I'm good. At least I can watch something different, even if it isn't appreciably better.

I am starting to care less about the "future" for this franchise because I don't think the current captains of that ship are doing much more than running it full speed towards the shoals. 

Hence why I just care about watching something "interesting." Just give me a reason to watch and not want to sell all my tickets or turn the station.