Official Panthers at Commies GameDay Thread

[Jared Patterson]

12 minutes ago, bruceleeroy said:

I'm not going to address you again because you can't comprehend what is being said.  THE ACTUAL STATS BACK WHAT I AM SAYING NOT YOUR OVERLY EMOTIONAL OPINION.  Got it?  Good.  It's clear to anyone smarter than a rock that the narrative formed by the Browns about Baker was nonsense.  Now move along.

I just ended this mans career on huddle in two seconds HAHAHAHAHHA

[Tbe]

2 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Is this serious? The best QB’s in the game right now were all developed… Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers…

So what.. someone came out with a study about developing QB’s… I’ll tell you right now that the study is inaccurate because that assumes that every QB is on a level playing field and throwing to the same receivers and has the same protection, and the same offensive line.

QB’s can certainly be developed… now it’s rare for a player to go from bagging groceries to throwing TD’s in the Super Bowl but this idea that players are what they are when the enter the NFL is foolish. If we were looking at everyone’s in result then we wouldn’t need coaches.

Guys can be coached up, but they need a certain starting point. A base skill level and aptitude.

When was the last time a guy sat for two years ‘developing’ and became a great player?

Mahomes and Rogers both played at some point their rookie year. They both looked good when they did. Both of those could have and would have started their rookie years if their teams needed them to.

Andy Reid and Tom Clements weren’t starting with jimmy Clausen level talent.

 

[Jared Patterson]

4 minutes ago, blahblah312 said:

Oh yeah, and Baker is not a top ten QB. He is a top ten commercial marketing guy though so there is that. 

@bruceleeroy literally said he's as good as Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes lol.

[MillionDollarCam]

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Allen played out of the gate

Mahomes could have played his rookie year, there are articles during it which the vets had their jaws on the ground with what he was doing

Rodgers was damn near 20 years ago

 

there are exceptions to the rule but mainly if you can play get your ass out there and play.  Do yourself a favor and go down the nfl qb roster and see how many started out of the gate in their first year

Allen played out of the gate but he wasn’t ready, it’s obvious that he was developed cause he drastically improved… he wasn’t a finished project when he started.

 As for Mahomes, jaw dropping plays don’t always correlate to success, we along with no one else were at closed practices, so we have nice idea if he was reading defenses correctly. He came from an air raid offense that is notorious for how simplistic it is. What we can say now is that he sat and learned and when it was his time he had success.

Rodgers, age has absolutely nothing to do with being developed. He could have been 40 and it wouldn’t have made a difference. The bottom line is that he had tools and his coaching staff worked him to harness those tools.

Those three QB’s all possess great athleticism and great arm talent. Those are two things that Corral also has… if only for those reasons I’d argue that you have to give the kid at least a year before evaluating him because of the deep learning curve he has coming from an RPO offense.

Mike Tomlin had some good comments on developing players. It’s not about what they can’t do but it’s about what they can do. If they have elite skills then good coaches can coach the mental side of the game to them.

As for Corral, it’s now up to Rhule to do the work to coach him up.

[Jared Patterson]

Pat Elflein will single handily get Baker killed out there.... He almost did already.

[panik]

1 minute ago, MillionDollarCam said:

As for Corral, it’s now up to Rhule to do the work to coach him up.

That's the big issue. Just like Baker in Cleveland all the talent in the world means nothing with bad coaching.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Allen played out of the gate but he wasn’t ready, it’s obvious that he was developed cause he drastically improved… he wasn’t a finished project when he started.

 As for Mahomes, jaw dropping plays don’t always correlate to success, we along with no one else were at closed practices, so we have nice idea if he was reading defenses correctly. He came from an air raid offense that is notorious for how simplistic it is. What we can say now is that he sat and learned and when it was his time he had success.

Rodgers, age has absolutely nothing to do with being developed. He could have been 40 and it wouldn’t have made a difference. The bottom line is that he had tools and his coaching staff worked him to harness those tools.

Those three QB’s all possess great athleticism and great arm talent. Those are two things that Corral also has… if only for those reasons I’d argue that you have to give the kid at least a year before evaluating him because of the deep learning curve he has coming from an RPO offense.

Mike Tomlin had some good comments on developing players. It’s not about what they can’t do but it’s about what they can do. If they have elite skills then good coaches can coach the mental side of the game to them.

As for Corral, it’s now up to Rhule to do the work to coach him up.

You are making my point about allen, even if he wasnt ready to play in his first year he did, and not only that he built on it

 

Mahomes could have played in his first season without a doubt, he had the best qb coach in probably history.

I am saying using rodgers as an example is extreme as it was 20 years ago and the brett farve angle

 

but the larger point is the vast majority of nfl qbs that are good simply came in and started pretty much from teh jump.

 

as to your last point, after this training camp and after this game I have zero faith rhule knows what the fug he is doing

[Tbe]

11 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Allen played out of the gate

Mahomes could have played his rookie year, there are articles during it which the vets had their jaws on the ground with what he was doing

Rodgers was damn near 20 years ago

 

there are exceptions to the rule but mainly if you can play get your ass out there and play.  Do yourself a favor and go down the nfl qb roster and see how many started out of the gate in their first year

Exactly.

Top tier QBs come in with the ability to start year one. 

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

42 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Always nice to win, going to bleach my ears out for the rest of the day. Hope I never have to listen to that Washington broadcaster again.

Probably the worst homer announcer I have ever heard.  I realize he is the color man for the Commanders but good god that was painful.  

I am glad he got to eat crow about send the Panthers back to Carolina with a L after the 2pt conversion.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Exactly.

Top tier QBs come in with the ability to start year one. 

 

I mean is mac jones more talented then Corral? 

[blahblah312]

1 minute ago, Tbe said:

Exactly.

Top tier QBs come in with the ability to start year one. 

 

I can agree with this in part, but the counter is this is the first game of preseason, he was working with JAG's on the road, and in general, outside of Cam's first game, I haven't really seen any Panther QB in their first start do much of anything, including Jake the Snake...IJS...way to early to form an opinion. 

[MillionDollarCam]

4 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Guys can be coached up, but they need a certain starting point. A base skill level and aptitude.

When was the last time a guy sat for two years ‘developing’ and became a great player?

Mahomes and Rogers both played at some point their rookie year. They both looked good when they did. Both of those could have and would have started their rookie years if their teams needed them to.

Andy Reid and Tom Clements weren’t starting with jimmy Clausen level talent.

 

I agree with that, I also don’t think Corral is some mental midget that we just trotted out on the field. I think the speed of the game was too fast for him and he wasn’t used to that type of pressure.

I said before that I thought Howell and Willis would preform better than most QB’s out of the gate because they were coming from teams who had ungodly OL’s. Liberty gave up 52 sacks and UNC gave up 49. Most of these preseason games feature turnstiles at the OL position because a lot of the starters don’t play. So when you have guys come in who are already used to that type of pressure they automatically have a leg up.

Ole Miss’s line wasn’t great but they were certainly better than the two above. So you add the simplified offense that Corral came from, the increased speed of the NFL, and the fact that he’s not used to running for his life every snap… it’s easy to see why he struggled.

The kid is not ready but it doesn’t mean he won’t be. I think his learning curve is steep but the bottom line is that he has tools to work with and at the very worst I think a good coaching staff could turn him into a good backup.

[weyco2000]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

It's almost like they don't really know what they're doing. And from the same staff that cut a long snapper one year after drafting him.

Howell was working with the same sh1t and balling the fug out, hell he’s playing with what seems like every cut the Panthers have ever made…

[DaveThePanther2008]

1. Corral was playing with an Oline made up of players that will be watching the NFL just like you and me come Sept 11.  They were worse than our starting OL last year.

2.  Little to no Reps in practice.  

3. Clearly trying to do too much.

4. Rivera was bringing all sorts of heat in a preseason game.  I guess it was important to beat Carolina regardless of whether it was a Preseason game or not.