Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

FMIA: Tanking shouldn’t be a dirty word


NAS
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

All kinds of stupid in here.

One last time for the guys in the back. Just last year we were 4-3 with CMC and 1-9 without him.

Never contributed to winning. Either stop being a troll or stop being dumb. Pick one.

We went 5-11 in his best season

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Chiefs and Bills are playing to win now.  Do you see them trading away vets for draft picks?  We are not playing to win now, as our main concern is the future which includes draft picks.  Getting the picks for CMC solidifies we are not focused on winning now from a front office perspective.  It we do then great!  Our main concern is developing young talent and securing more draft capital to continue building.  

I don't necessarily believe this.  CMC is a great player but it was a win/win for us and the Niners.  they got a chance to make a move and we got the opportunity to get extra picks in the coming draft.  It is still TBD if Foreman and Hubbard can pick the slack up.  Yesterday they did.  We'll see in the next couple of game.   If the can than the move was great for us and still gives us a chance to compete. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Rebuild mode got it.  

The conversation started with LOSING games or not trying to win games so we can get the coveted 1st pick in the draft.  The tankers in this conversation keep changing the perimeters to enhance their position.  

How do you rebuild? 1 through 4 above.  That still doesn't guarantee that we will lose enough games to get the top pick.

nobody here is changing their position, we just aren’t as stupid as you wish everyone was to have a dishonest discussion with someone who has declared that any stat that confronts him as inconvenient as not being a statistic that should be considered 

nobody here is buying your shtick bro. 
 

“here’s all the QBs who have panned out relevant to draft position”

”let’s not discuss that, let’s look at this niche field of subject matter across this narrow window that I’ve selected for us to observe”

insults against others on here don’t bother me in the slightest, but you melted down when you realized that the posters here were too inconveniently intelligent to fall for your cherry picked stat which quite hilariously didn’t even reinforce your position as those Super Bowls were filled with former #1 overall picks, and that’s some real amateur forum maneuvering right there

Edited by Growl
  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think about the 2002 and 2011 and realized we went opposite directions in terms of the draft and got to the same result. In the '02 draft, it was David Carr (the franchise, can't miss QB prospect that happens every draft season) that went at 1 and we had to choose to get either Peppers (BPA) or Joey Harrington (need & the number 2 QB prospect). That time, we went best player available and took Peppers 1st, Foster in the 2nd, Will Witherspoon in the 3rd, and Dante Wesley in the 4th. Two years later, we were in the Super Bowl, and all those picks mentioned were a factor in getting there. In 2011, we went with need instead of perceived BPA Cam instead of Von Miller, 4 years later, we were in the Super Bowl. No player outside of Cam drafted in 2011 by us was a factor, but Cam was a supernova that year. We don't have to tank to get the best players in a draft if we do the scouting and make the right picks (staying put, moving up, moving down, that's the part TBD based off the rest of the year). The CMC trade is a good thing overall, now we just have to nail the picks we have in the upcoming draft, regardless of the spot. Pick a direction with the new coach and get what you need to make their vision reality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

We may not be searching for that one piece to make a difference, but we have several young players to build around offensively and defensively.  You don't trade those away just for draft picks.  It makes no sense especially when they are the caliber of Horn, Chinn, Burns and Brown. All of these players are on their rookie contract. 

No you don't trade away young talented players on rookie deals for picks because one is a sure thing for the same money.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Growl said:

nobody here is changing their position, we just aren’t as stupid as you wish everyone was to have a dishonest discussion with someone who has declared that any stat that confronts him as inconvenient as not being a statistic that should be considered 

nobody here is buying your shtick bro. 
 

“here’s all the QBs who have panned out relevant to draft position”

”let’s not discuss that, let’s look at this niche field of subject matter across this narrow window that I’ve selected for us to observe”

insults against others on here don’t bother me in the slightest, but you melted down when you realized that the posters here were too inconveniently intelligent to fall for your cherry picked stat which quite hilariously didn’t even reinforce your position as those Super Bowls were filled with former #1 overall picks, and that’s some real amateur forum maneuvering right there

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

okay buddy keep your eyes on that cave wall

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm done arguing with people that don't listen to what others have to say.  

You guys think we should Tank, in whatever fashion you believe, then so be it.  

Bottom line this team is not going to tank anytime soon so we can have a questionable #1 draft pick that 3 years down the road we are right back where we started. 

This team will fight for every win whether it's 1 or 10 more.  We'll worry about the draft slot we get after the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

thats not even remotely close to what we were discussing

BS, when it started it was about getting a QB to win the big one.  That Franchise QB that everyone thinks is in this draft.   Please stop.

Just let it go, I have, I'm done arguing with you guys because you want to be right, but you're not. 

We have 1 week, if we trade away talent before then, then maybe but otherwise this team is going to fight for a playoff spot until we are eliminated from that said spot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I'm done arguing with people that don't listen to what others have to say.  

You guys think we should Tank, in whatever fashion you believe, then so be it.  

Bottom line this team is not going to tank anytime soon so we can have a questionable #1 draft pick that 3 years down the road we are right back where we started. 

This team will fight for every win whether it's 1 or 10 more.  We'll worry about the draft slot we get after the season.

Thats like the 3rd post where you said you were done

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

Winning QBs in the Super Bowl?  Why not just sign Foles or Flacco then as I am sure they will be available this offseason?  People get hung up on just winning the big game.  We want sustained success like the Bills, Chiefs, Bengals (are starting to get), Packers/Saints (previously had), Steelers and similar franchises.  The Steelers had Big Ben retire and immediately drafted a QB in the first even with a weak class (maybe he is the answer maybe not, but they are probably going to keep trying until they get their guy).  

They all have or had elite QBs that they drafted.  Sure you can pull an Eagles and win with a great team or the Broncos and win with an elite defense, but those teams missed the playoffs afterwards and fired their coaches.  Broncos are so desperate to find their QB they threw away a draft and huge money at Russ.  SB victories are going to be a tough measurement as Tom Brady has such a large portion of them.  We want sustained success and not to be the franchise constantly talking about the Super Bowl we won however many years ago.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Who should Tepper have chosen?  It was between Wilks and McAdoo and McAdoo was fielding the worst offense in the NFL.  I think WIlks was the best candidate and gives them the best chance to win.  Tepper even came down to the locker room and gave Wilks the game ball.  I'm ok with a 5 win team because we are "tanking" or building for the future.  We are trading away picks to acquire CJ Henderson, Shenault, or Gilmore.  Out focus is developing our young talent, resetting the salary cap (2023 takes the big hit and 2024 is wide open), and collecting draft picks.  Throw in a high 1st round pick QB and I think we are headed in the right direction.  

Tabor won games as an interim in Chicago and his unit was producing.

I guess people define tanking differently.  

Heres pnp on tanking

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We had Teddy, Darnold and Mayfield as his QBs. We had one of the worst OLs in the league until the last few weeks. We completely gutted our D from 2019 and started over. Stop acting like CMC was a bad player. It’s just stupid.

Excuses .. and Cam had a bare cupboard in NE and had Rhule last year but Cam's done .. it can't go both ways.

CMC with all the excuses. No. You got rid of CMC and then beat Brady that isn't a coincidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Looking Back at the 2021 Panthers Draft Class An NFL player's career on average is said to last just slightly over three years, and because of that, it's considered a general rule of thumb that by Year 3, a team knows what kind of professional football player a pick has developed into. While there are always exceptions to the rule, that's not the point of this topic. This is about the players who are still on the team after being picked up in the 2021 draft (or as UDFAs). Only four remain on the roster today: Jaycee Horn, Chuba Hubbard, Tommy Tremble, and Brady Christensen. Two of them signed significant contract extensions with the team (Horn, Hubbard) while the other two (Tremble, Christensen) received short-term deals that aren't cap-heavy. It's worth mentioning the conditions these guys entered the league under Matt Rhule's second year and Scott Fitterer's first. A ton of players were brought in that year, including a long snapper who didn't make the team… instead of Trey Smith, who just happens to be the Chiefs' starting guard (hey... to be fair to Thomas Fletcher, he did have a fun draft day phone call). These four survived Rhule and Reich and were seen as valuable enough under the first-year combo of Morgan and Canales to be rewarded with second deals. Jaycee Horn (Round 1, Pick 8.) Horn has all of the traits of a true CB1: elite footwork, physicality, and the ability to mirror WR1s... but his biggest challenge has been staying on the field. He's never finished an entire season, though to be fair, it's been rumored he wouldn’t have been shut down for the final two weeks of last season had the team been in playoff contention. He's got just 37 career games played over four seasons (with 15 of those coming in Morgan/Canales' Year 1). The team gambled on his production after seeing that not only can he lock down WR1s in man or match quarters, but he can also be dependable in a heavy cover-3 zone scheme like what the Panthers ran last season. With the recent free agent and draft additions made this offseason, expect Jaycee to go back to eliminating WR1s from the game rather than shutting down a third of the field like he was recently asked to do. Chuba Hubbard (Round 4, Pick 126) Originally seen as a depth pick with linear speed, Hubbard has outperformed expectations and emerged as the team's RB1 over the past couple of years. His 2023 breakout laid the foundation, but in 2024 he cemented his role as the lead back, showing much-improved vision, contact balance, and decisiveness in outside zone. He finished top-10 in missed tackles forced and yards after contact per attempt, all while holding his own in pass protection and producing on screens. Chuba doesn't have elite burst or wiggle, but he's carved out a spot as the leader and tone-setter in the run game. Not bad value for a Day 3 selection—positional value be damned. Tommy Tremble (Round 3, Pick 83) Tremble has been the kind of player every team needs but few talk about: dependable, physical, and quietly versatile. When he was drafted, he was already known for his blocking chops and has steadily improved as a receiver. He experienced his most complete season in 2024 with a 79.3% catch rate, 10.2 yards per reception, no drops, and a 108.9 passer rating when targeted. Not only that, he's been a consistent special teamer since coming into the league. He's a natural fit as a TE/FB hybrid in 12 and 13 personnel, consistently handling the dirty work in both run and pass situations. Brady Christensen (Round 3, Pick 70) BC has played all over the line both as a starter and as a back-up. We haven't seen the "short arms" come up as often as Rhule was worried about, especially against ATL and WAS where he logged over 100 snaps at center and posted his best grades of the year (76.0 OVR, 73.8 PBL, 75.8 RBLK vs. ATL; 85.2 OVR, 72.9 PBLK, 86.0 RBLK vs. WAS). While his overall pass-blocking grade (56.1) and lack of a consistent position might mean that he's the perfect OL6 rather than a long-term starter, he's been dependable when given his opportunities.
    • Fees nowadays are ridiculous. After purchasing concert tickets for my son’s 18th birthday and paying the rest of our HHI trip with 3 other families, I’m shocked at how much they are. Honestly, it’s grand theft. Some is taxes but in a world where everything is electronic, fees should be cheaper. Electrons don’t cost 10-30% of the event.
×
×
  • Create New...