from Darin's mailbag re: the 2002 top 3 picks in the draft

[Basbear]

4 hours ago, Varking said:

I agree but that’s also my point. The Chiefs got their guy. And anyone who had him as their guy should have traded up to get him rather than hope he falls. When you pick high you have that luxury of getting your guy but you need to scout it right and make the call. 

Andy Reid is the best QB coach in NFL history.  

[UnluckyforSome]

Young has a frame like that of a high school player. The coach would be on him every day about lifting weights and eating right. Alabama this season is not the typical Alabama team, but they are still better stocked than 95% of the competition.  Young will not have that advantage at the next level. If I was making the pick at the top of the draft, I'm not spending that pick on Young. I don't care if someone wants to argue he's a Kyler Murray-type. Murray has not developed any at this level, and is not one of the top qbs.

Stroud is criticized for being a system qb. He's surrounded by top talent. They do a great job of scheming players open and then it's just pitch and catch. Not SEC level of competition. One read qb. Not mobile. Hasn't looked great every game. OSU curse. Is he worth the top pick? Probably not.

I guess the funny thing is, unless the qb is named Manning or Elway, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of evidence that a qb, as one of the top couple of picks in the draft, has met the moment.  It just seems like some of these prospects may be more Bradford than Burrow, and there is more depth with this qb class and less shine.

[Aussie Tank]

2 hours ago, UnluckyforSome said:

Young has a frame like that of a high school player. The coach would be on him every day about lifting weights and eating right. Alabama this season is not the typical Alabama team, but they are still better stocked than 95% of the competition.  Young will not have that advantage at the next level. If I was making the pick at the top of the draft, I'm not spending that pick on Young. I don't care if someone wants to argue he's a Kyler Murray-type. Murray has not developed any at this level, and is not one of the top qbs.

Stroud is criticized for being a system qb. He's surrounded by top talent. They do a great job of scheming players open and then it's just pitch and catch. Not SEC level of competition. One read qb. Not mobile. Hasn't looked great every game. OSU curse. Is he worth the top pick? Probably not.

I guess the funny thing is, unless the qb is named Manning or Elway, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of evidence that a qb, as one of the top couple of picks in the draft, has met the moment.  It just seems like some of these prospects may be more Bradford than Burrow, and there is more depth with this qb class and less shine.

Bradford was rookie of the year before injuries took their toll. Plus before the rookie pay limits got introduced it was a lot harder to stack a good side around a rookie QB 

[Jackie Lee]

25 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Bradford was rookie of the year before injuries took their toll. Plus before the rookie pay limits got introduced it was a lot harder to stack a good side around a rookie QB 

 

[UnluckyforSome]

9 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

 

35 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Bradford was rookie of the year before injuries took their toll. Plus before the rookie pay limits got introduced it was a lot harder to stack a good side around a rookie QB 

From 1998 with Peyton Manning, to 2010 with Sam Bradford, 10 qbs were selected #1 overall. Bradford was the last under the old contract process. Three non qbs were taken over this period. 

Bradford was not worth the top pick, but for teams that found themselves at that spot the position had to align with the expanding value of the contract. The non qbs taken were 2 de and a t. Premium contract meant for premium positions. It wasn't necessarily more difficult to build through the draft, so long as a team didn't get back broken over a top contract for a bust pick.

I'm not picking on Bradford so don't get all in a funk about ROY and injuries. Busts happen for a number of reasons.

 

[Aussie Tank]

11 minutes ago, UnluckyforSome said:

 

From 1998 with Peyton Manning, to 2010 with Sam Bradford, 10 qbs were selected #1 overall. Bradford was the last under the old contract process. Three non qbs were taken over this period. 

Bradford was not worth the top pick, but for teams that found themselves at that spot the position had to align with the expanding value of the contract. The non qbs taken were 2 de and a t. Premium contract meant for premium positions. It wasn't necessarily more difficult to build through the draft, so long as a team didn't get back broken over a top contract for a bust pick.

I'm not picking on Bradford so don't get all in a funk about ROY and injuries. Busts happen for a number of reasons.

 

Of course it was harder contracts were 3 times the size with a lower overall salary cap 

[UnluckyforSome]

3 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Of course it was harder contracts were 3 times the size with a lower overall salary cap 

Price did not make it more difficult. You can argue price made it more risky or raised the stakes on higher picks, but the difficulty level was no different. 

[Aussie Tank]

16 minutes ago, UnluckyforSome said:

Price did not make it more difficult. You can argue price made it more risky or raised the stakes on higher picks, but the difficulty level was no different. 

The difficulty I’m talking about is it was more difficult to field talent around them to help them succeed 

[UnluckyforSome]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

The difficulty I’m talking about is it was more difficult to field talent around them to help them succeed 

Disagree, and that's fine. If the organization was sound, utilized it's resources, scouted thoroughly, went into the draft with a plan, and was generally well-run, then it was not an impossible task.

To contrast, this is a good bit of why the Bengals were terrible for so long. So, to that extent, rookie wage scales have mitigated a good portion of the penalty of draft busts, and I think we agree on that at least.

[SCO96]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:23 PM, Growl said:

those three teams share the same number of championships

 

 

But one of those teams (our beloved Panthers) has made it it to 3 conference title games and made two Super Bowl appearances. You can't say that about the Texans and the Lions. And our team had a legit chance to win both of those Super Bowls.

I hate pointing this out, but the journeyman QB who led us to our first appearance matched Tom Brady throw for throw and would/could have been MVP if we had won.  He played better in game than our  #1 pick and 2015 league MVP in his loss to Denver. A game in which Peyton Manning couldn't lead his team to 200 total yards on offense.

[OceanPanther]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:47 PM, 4Corners said:

Where does Peppers rank all time in terms of greatest NC athletes? 
 

Jordan

Peppers

Dale Sr

catfish Hunter

Enos Slaughter

madison bumgartner 

Gaylord Perry also. 2 Cy Young Awards .MLB  HOF

If we go old school,  Sonny Jurgensen NFL HOF,  & Roman Gabriel  NFL MVP  

[SazmoRanger]

I’m all about BPA, but QB is the only exception. Sure, NOBODY is a sure fire thing, but you have to have a QB to win consistently in the NFL. 

We’ve had the chance to draft Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Watson, and Fields. This doesn’t include the players we were in range to trade up for like an Herbert.

Instead we’ve drafted the defensive stud with a less chance of a bust rate. They’ve mostly all been really good players, but it’s gotten us a combined like 23 wins or something. Look at the NFL and the teams that are constantly in the playoffs(not just winning a Super Bowl) and they Al have franchise QBs. YOU HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE ON A QB TO WIN CONSISTENTLY! I’m not saying any of these QBs are going to be franchise QBs, but we’re Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, or Fields considered “can’t miss, sure fire Franchise QBs”? 
 

 

[frankw]

6 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

I used to watch his prank videos all the time. He's done well for himself making people laugh good for him.

 

[SCO96]

A great QB can elevate an average to good supporting cast. A great all around team can elevate an average to good QB.

Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Mc McMahon, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles will never sniff the Hall of Fame. However, they do have one thing in common. All won 5 won SB rings when they started the big game. Why was that possible? They only had to stay w/in the game plan and not mess things up by turning the ball over.

We don’t need a Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, or Burrow in this years draft to compete for a title going forward “IF” the rest of the team is solid. What we need is a guy that can drop back 25-30 times per game, complete 60% of his passes, throw 25-28 TD (averages out to less than 2 per game) and not turn the ball over on a regular basis. If we had that right now we’d be in first place in the NFC South.

You don’t have to have a top 5 pick to find a guy like that in the draft. But, a guy selected lower in the draft may take a little longer to develop and require more rigorous coaching.