Go for Carr hard and save #9 pick?

[LinvilleGorge]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:56 PM, TheMaulClaw said:

I totally agree we will get exponentially better with a franchise qb.  I think it just depends on if your really sold on one of the prospects this year.  I like Stroud the most, but deep down I'm a little unsure about all of them this year, but if I had to gamble it would be on Stroud.  I just don't think we have the draft capital to get him without significantly hamstringing this franchise for years to come.  The only way it becomes worth it is if he became a flat out star.

If we were to keep Darnold (Bearded Darnold only), we would have the most flexibility.  Darnold won't inhibit our cap much.  Darnold has improved.  We won't have to pay Carr 30 million dollars a year.  We won't lose our future draft picks. 

Two things can happen with Darnold.  Darnold improves because he is the starter going into mini and training camps.  Darnold will actually have one hell of a coaching staff around him for the first time.  He had Adam Gase and Matt Rhule...poor guy.   Then we win the NFC South with Darnold.

OR

We are back at number 9 next year, because Darnold truly sucks...but this time we are back at number 9 with amazing cap space and we will truly be just a qb away.

We are not just a qb away right now.  We need TE help.  We need another starting linebacker.  We need another receiver.  We need help at corner, I'm not sure if Jackson can return the same player.  We're going to need an opposite edge, and a 1 tech since it appears we're going hybrid 3-4 zone blitz.

 

 

If you want to lose all this fanbase optimism momentum that hiring this staff has created, then stick with Sam Darnold with no legit competition. I just don't see any chance it happens. What happens if you're back at #9 next year? Rumblings that this much hyped staff is a flop. Consternation that we aren't anywhere close to being able to land a Drake Maye or Caleb Williams.

Here's the reality. #9 is always too low to nab the mythological "can't miss QB prospect". You can absolutely land franchise QBs with a borderline top 10 pick but it's gonna be a prospect with warts. Will the warts end up mattering or not? 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

No I don't, but Young is at best somewhere between Tua and Murray and Stroud is a Fields clone.  Is that something I'm willing to give up the farm for?  No. Pull up our roster and tell me how a rookie QB, even if Stroud or Young (not happening) is making this team better?  The pipe dream is Levis and AR not only starting day 1, but also panning out.  Neither of those guys are plug/play and will absolutely bust if forced into action prematurely.

Stroud is a Fields clone??? Really? That’s like comparing Tua and Hurts because they played at the same school. They are two completely different players. Stroud can become anywhere from Goff to Burrow (who our new QB coach has already compared him to). You would be better off comparing AR to Fields. 

No Levis and AR aren’t ready to start week 1 unless we just want them to take their lumps like Buffalo did with Allen. That’s actually the norm for rookie QBs. Week 1 starters that look solid are extremely rare. It’s another reason why waiting another year isn’t the best idea. You are typically 2 plus years away from great QB play when you draft one.

[top dawg]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Here's the reality. #9 is always too low to nab the mythological "can't miss QB prospect". You can absolutely land franchise QBs with a borderline top 10 pick but it's gonna be a prospect with warts. Will the warts end up mattering or not? 

[LinvilleGorge]

14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

/cdn-cgi/mirage/2c732b875a9c937cb45b8f16c1ada27d3c0c9096f3c0e023cb2e326cb3cf3c3c/1280/https://media4.giphy.com/media/uVOlHikaWeY1OC0a7L/200.gif

We know. He had warts too. Didn't win in college. Turnover prone. Played in a gimmicky system that exaggerated stats.

Don't try to pretend in hindsight like he was anything close to a perfect QB prospect.

 

 

[ForJimmy]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2022/story/_/id/33145124/patrick-mahomes-evolving-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-how-chiefs-qb-changed-way-todd-mcshay-scouts-position?platform=amp

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We know. He had warts too. Didn't win in college. Turnover prone. Played in a gimmicky system that exaggerated stats.

Don't try to pretend in hindsight like he was anything close to a perfect QB prospect.

 

 

I didn't. You're the one trying to pretend that you can't get a decent QB "borderline top 10." 

Hell, Hurts was a day two pick not that long ago. 

I'm just not one that falls into that line of thinking. It is better to pick higher because you have the pick of the litter, but it's more important to scout and draft properly. And, considering the hit rate, sometimes you just have to be lucky. 

On an off note KC obviously thought more of Mahomes than others because they actually moved up to 10 to get him.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2022/story/_/id/33145124/patrick-mahomes-evolving-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-how-chiefs-qb-changed-way-todd-mcshay-scouts-position?platform=amp

I'm glad he said this

"Most recently, Zach Wilson's tape from BYU shared traits with that of Mahomes..."

Because the whole time I was reading that's article I was thinking "Okay, now do Zach Wilson." LOL!

Sooooo much of the QB position is between the ears. It's why it's such a tough evaluation. All the physical talent in the world just doesn't matter if you don't have the right mental makeup.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I didn't. You're the one trying to pretend that you can't get a decent QB "borderline top 10." 

Are you illiterate? I literally said the exact opposite. LOL!

[NanuqoftheNorth]

19 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We know. He had warts too. Didn't win in college. Turnover prone. Played in a gimmicky system that exaggerated stats.

Don't try to pretend in hindsight like he was anything close to a perfect QB prospect.

Yeah, I was curious about Patrick's draft critics the other day and in my search came across this article...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-chiefs-2017-nfl-draft/i880cg6p8xumjacoqmb8i0v5
 

Quote

 

Some questioned whether Mahomes' production a product of Texas Tech's Air Raid offense. They also wondered how he would perform in a pro-style offense at the next level and whether his shot-taking, gunslinger mentality would cause him to be turnover-prone at the next level.

 

 

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Are you illiterate? I literally said the exact opposite. LOL!

No, just getting lost in unnecessary words. But, my bad.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

 

Yeah, I was curious about Patrick's draft critics the other day and in my search came across this article...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/patrick-mahomes-chiefs-2017-nfl-draft/i880cg6p8xumjacoqmb8i0v5
 

 

He's honestly an anomaly. I mean, a lot of the things that make him who he is are things you'd never coach a QB to do. Hell, a lot of them are things you'd specifically coach a QB NOT to do. He's Favre without the INTs. You're not supposed to be able to have the best of both worlds.

[ECHornet]

I'm just going to leave this here for your entertainment:

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=TrubMi00&player_id1=CarrDe02&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=pfr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=CarrDe02

Derek Carr vs. Mitch Trubisky comparison

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

No, just getting lost in unnecessary words. But, my bad.

All good. Sorry to be a dick. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Also, many fans seem to forget, these prospective QBs aren't fully formed ready to go out of the box.  They aren't plug and play, nor do they exist in a vacuum.  These guys need to be supported, coached, surrounded with talent and placed in the proper schemes that make the most of their abilities.  Even Mahomes might have failed to find success under someone like Matt Rhule.