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would you be opposed to moving back up for Bijan Robinson?

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Say you haven't been a fan for long without saying you haven't been a fan for long. LOL!

What are you talking about..  I been a fan probably longer than you... Are we going back to Stewart D'Angelo days or before? because what does that have to do with the rain in spain? It was a different league then... What we did 15 years ago doesnt apply to the current climate of the league?

 

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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I will never get the huddle logic of trying to shop at dollar tree and saying these shoes are just as good as the 100 dollar shoes that nike makes. Yeah you can get a guy between 3-5 who could be good. he can go out get you 100 yards every 3 games or so. But the guys who are special... guys you have to gameplan for and account for every snap are different. If you can get a top 8 player in the entire draft at say 20. you cant compare him to a guy you get in the 3-5 range.

A guy who is is unquestionably the number 1 player at his position in the draft. something that cant be said for any other player in this class is of great value. 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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9 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

What are you talking about..  I been a fan probably longer than you... Are we going back to Stewart D'Angelo days or before? because what does that have to do with the rain in spain? It was a different league then... What we did 15 years ago doesnt apply to the current climate of the league?

 

Yes. All the way back. I'm talking the history of the franchise. We've put a ridiculous premium on RB and off the ball LB. How's that working out for us?

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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5 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I will never get the huddle logic of trying to shop at dollar tree and saying these shoes are just as good as the 100 dollar shoes that nike makes. Yeah you can get a guy between 3-5 who could be good. he can go out get you 100 yards every 3 games or so. But the guys who are special... guys you have to gameplan for and account for every snap are different. If you can get a top 8 player in the entire draft at say 20. you cant compare him to a guy you get in the 3-5 range.

A guy who is is unquestionably the number 1 player at his position in the draft. something that cant be said for any other player in this class is of great value. 

I'll never understand the people who want to continue making the same mistakes that have made us a sub-.500 franchise. We are a losing franchise because we've spent too many resources at non-premium positions leaving too few resources to spend on premium positions. It's honestly that simple.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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16 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

I think we only treated the position as a premium when it was warranted. McCaffrey was warranted. payed off and then some. sure you can get guys mid  round and so on but not all RBs are interchangeable and of equal value. Guys who can carry a offense like say a barkley are special.  We arent going to have a top 10 offense passing the ball.

You have a question mark at the starting postion at RB so i think the question needs to be asked. Your returning solid options at wr and still developing Marshall and possibly Shi Smith. Yes i am on board with drafting a TE but I think Robinson is head and shoulders better than all options available at 20. 

CMC's return was legitimately terrible. That's very little his fault but the return was insanely bad. We are 24-34 when he starts games in his career here(for reference we are 15-24 when he doesn't start/play, including after he was traded in 2022).

His stats were great, but the missed games were nuts and I think it's also kind of clear that he isn't quite as explosive as he once was. 

Will always be in the discussion for best RB in franchise history but he is also a case study in why you don't spend money on the position anymore. Unfortunately for us, it was about case file 25 or so. It isn't like there aren't ample examples of why not to pay big money for RB's over the past 20 years.

 

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Shocker Grand Master

Shocker

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4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yes. All the way back. I'm talking the history of the franchise. We've put a ridiculous premium on RB and off the ball LB. How's that working out for us?

I do like the player but I would rather spend that pick on DE or WR or even TE before RB.  I agree we have needs elsewhere and our RBs weren’t the problem last year.  
 

Obviously this would mean we couldn’t move up and get our QB or went with Carr.  I want the QB in a move up but we need a dance partner 

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yes. All the way back. I'm talking the history of the franchise. We've put a ridiculous premium on RB and off the ball LB. How's that working out for us?

I'm sure you could say the same of most franchises right up til say mid Payton Manning Era. It was a rushing league now its a passing one.  I agree off the ball linebackers are not great investments but those who rush the passer are. 2 different things. Just like RBs who can be a aasset in the passing game(like CMC) guys who are special are exceptions to the rule.

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Shocker Grand Master

Shocker

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

CMC's return was legitimately terrible. That's very little his fault but the return was insanely bad. We are 24-34 when he starts games in his career here(for reference we are 15-24 when he doesn't start/play, including after he was traded in 2022).

His stats were great, but the missed games were nuts and I think it's also kind of clear that he isn't quite as explosive as he once was. 

Will always be in the discussion for best RB in franchise history but he is also a case study in why you don't spend money on the position anymore. Unfortunately for us, it was about case file 25 or so. It isn't like there aren't ample examples of why not to pay big money for RB's over the past 20 years.

 

The Panthers clearly sat him for long periods of time when he technically could have played.  There was no reason to risk him when we were losing like that.  CMC is a great player, one of the best offensive players but I can’t disagree we didn’t get his best here.

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Wundrbread33 Grand Master

Wundrbread33

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Every runningback thread contains people talking about CMC like he is just a runningback.

 

He’s a defense breaking offensive weapon. He’s the best runner and has the best hands on the team as soon as he walks in the building. 
 

Slot corners have issues with him, let alone the linebackers he abuses every play. 
 

Watch some 49er tape if McAdoo’s usage of him is stuck in your head. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Just now, Shocker said:

The Panthers clearly sat him for long periods of time when he technically could have played.  There was no reason to risk him when we were losing like that.  CMC is a great player, one of the best offensive players but I can’t disagree we didn’t get his best here.

It's not really about his best or not his best. Even at his best, it didn't have a dramatic impact on wins and losses. I posted the article here a few seasons ago(around the time we were talking about extending him) and it was a detailed statistical analysis that specifically resulted in win shares for RB's being one of the lowest positions on any NFL offense.

And that has always been the big problem with paying money like that to a RB. This isn't the 70's or 80's or even 90's. It isn't "featured" backs anymore that have 400+ carries a year until they are ground to dust because that is what wins. That's not modern NFL football. RB's are complimentary players and the decline in overall top paid players at the position very much reflects the league recognizing that this has been the trend.

That's the problem a lot of the irrational CMC fanboys have with this argument. It literally has NOTHING to do with CMC the player. It's about the position and how it has evolved into something that doesn't need a $8+ mil/year player. Much less one double that cost.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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Just now, Wundrbread33 said:

Basically runningbacks with so so hands are a dime a dozen, yes.
 

A Marshall Faulk type player will always be insanely valuable in the NFL. 

And how did that work once he didn't have a QB in SF? Did he drag them to victory?

No he didn't. Because that isn't how winning in the NFL works.

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