Ryan Poles trying to drive up the cost of the #1 pick

[45catfan]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You're talking in absolutes about draft prospects. That's the #1 fallacy of any draft conversation.

Just like the absolute assumption that moving up for a QB will solve our QB problems. He either will or he won't. History shows the weight is much more heavy on the won't side.  Missing on a QB is going to happen, but don't compound it by giving up a poo-ton of future draft capital too.  If a QB drops to #9 and the staff wants to take a swing, go for it.  I personally want to wait another year, but I won't be upset because a bust is only this years first and not other firsts in future drafts.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I sense that the pressure is coming from Tepper and we are predicting what they might do and adding our opinions.  I see your point, and that is what makes this agonizing.  When you say, there is no generational talent in this draft, you see this draft as others saw Wilson, Lance, and maybe Fields in 2021?  I see that. On the other hand, I see a player like Justin Herbert getting drafted at #8 (2020) and we sat there, when moving up would have cost us a first rounder at best.  I did not think Josh Allen was a generational talent.  I thought Goff was going to be generational talent.  I cannot gauge QB talent. 

When I say generational, I mean the unquestioned #1 overall.  Most recently Trevor Lawrence.  You could have offered the Jags the moon and they wouldn't have come off that pick.  Yes, there are a lot of intriguing prospects this year, but in most years (last year being an exception) there are usually a minimum of 2 up to 4 or 5 of these "high potential" QBs in every draft.

You proved my point in the bold section.  All really solid prospects, and it's been a mixed bag with arguably the higher picks having the worst results.  Mahommes was pick #10 (would have dropped out of the top 10  had KC not traded up for him, people for get that).  So this 'WE HAVE TO MOVE UP TO THE TOP THREE RIGHT NOW!' is nothing but impatience.  Yes, the organization feels it too, but they will be calculating.  The fans are just irrationally impatient.

[Captroop]

The only thing worse than being a bad team is being a bad team with no future draft capital.

I hope to God we don't trade up. And if we do, I hope to God it isn't for the number 1 pick. And if it is, then I hope to God that our former NFL QBs at HC and QB coach know what the fug they're doing. Because if we lose 3 1st rounders on this pick, and we miss, we're in for a decade of obscurity.

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Just like the absolute assumption that moving up for a QB will solve our QB problems. He either will or he won't. History shows the weight is much more heavy on the won't side.  Missing on a QB is going to happen, but don't compound it by giving up a poo-ton of future draft capital too.  If a QB drops to #9 and the staff wants to take a swing, go for it.  I personally want to wait another year, but I won't be upset because a bust is only this years first and not other firsts in future drafts.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying we should consider all possibilities. Hell, I've said numerous times that if multiple future 1sts are involved that makes me hesitant as hell.

Some of y'all just formulate an opinion, dig in, and start slinging grenades. LOL!

I don't think Tepper is on the mood for the "wait another year" plan. What do you do next year if you're in the same position? Comes a point when you run out of years to wait because you've gotten yourself fired for waiting.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

When I say generational, I mean the unquestioned #1 overall.  Most recently Trevor Lawrence.  You could have offered the Jags the moon and they wouldn't have come off that pick.  Yes, there are a lot of intriguing prospects this year, but in most years (last year being an exception) there are usually a minimum of 2 up to 4 or 5 of these "high potential" QBs in every draft.

You proved my point in the bold section.  All really solid prospects, and it's been a mixed bag with arguably the higher picks having the worst results.  Mahommes was pick #10 (would have dropped out of the top 10  had KC not traded up for him, people for get that).  So this 'WE HAVE TO MOVE UP TO THE TOP THREE RIGHT NOW!' is nothing but impatience.  Yes, the organization feels it too, but they will be calculating.  The fans are just irrationally impatient.

The thing about those generational prospects is there's no trading for them. The team that lands #1 takes the guy.

[Tr3ach]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

But put yourself in Fitts' shoes. You have an owner desperate for a franchise QB. He's run out of patience waiting. If you sit there at #9 and a QB doesn't fall and you have to go into the season with another mediocre vet retread or a third tier rookie or Matt Corral at QB, you're a walking dead man. You're as good as fired. Make a bold move for a QB and you've at least bought yourself time.

The time is now. Everyone feels it.

 

Or you trade the farm to move up.  No qb is a sure thing.  They are average to below average and youre fired, and the team is bad for years since they traded multiple years firsts to get up there.  Im not sure that as any less risky.  That sounds much more risky than staying put at 9 and seeing if one falls.  Unless you absolutely absolutely love one.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Or you trade the farm to move up.  No qb is a sure thing.  They are average to below average and youre fired, and the team is bad for years since they traded multiple years firsts to get up there.  Im not sure that as any less risky.  That sounds much more risky than staying put at 9 and seeing if one falls.  Unless you absolutely absolutely love one.

If he's a bust you probably get fired in two years. If you fail to land one you probably get fired after this year.

[WUnderhill]

This guy might turn into a “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” meme acting like that. It could work out, but he’s also risking scenarios where Carolina decides to sign Carr and Vegas gets Rogers and then all of a sudden the Colts don’t see much reason to try to move up because there isn’t anybody trying to get ahead of them anymore. As somebody who works in sales and negotiations, that’s some pretty dumb poo for him to say publicly. Emotions are involved and if you start making people think you’re price gouging them and being a little twerp, their pride gets involved.

[stan786]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

If he's a bust you probably get fired in two years. If you fail to land one you probably get fired after this year.

Yeah this is the curse of waiting multiple years as a GM you get forced into a corner. Delaying a Rookie QB can help delay the clock at the outset, but eventually a GM is expected to find their QB and Fitterer is in a situation (Not entirely his fault) where he's gotta figure it out this year more than likely.

[Tr3ach]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If he's a bust you probably get fired in two years. If you fail to land one you probably get fired after this year.

I guess it depends on how bad the qb/team looks.  As a franchise though, trading the farm to move up and it not working out sets you much further back.

[stan786]

1 minute ago, WUnderhill said:

This guy might turn into a “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” meme acting like that. It could work out, but he’s also risking scenarios where Carolina decides to sign Carr and Vegas gets Rogers and then all of a sudden the Colts don’t see much reason to try to move up because there isn’t anybody trying to get ahead of them anymore. As somebody who works in sales and negotiations, that’s some pretty dumb poo for him to say publicly. Emotions are involved and if you start making people think you’re price gouging them and being a little twerp, their pride gets involved.

With all the leaks today I personally am going to be surprised if they hold this pick beyond the start of Free Agency, feels like a lot of public negotiation posturing to me which usually indicates its in the process of getting ironed out. We'll see though, I'm not really a big believer in Poles so he could very likely be just playing stupid games as you say.

[bigdog_10_2002]

6 minutes ago, Captroop said:

The only thing worse than being a bad team is being a bad team with no future draft capital.

I hope to God we don't trade up. And if we do, I hope to God it isn't for the number 1 pick. And if it is, then I hope to God that our former NFL QBs at HC and QB coach know what the fug they're doing. Because if we lose 3 1st rounders on this pick, and we miss, we're in for a decade of obscurity.

Where does this mindset come from?

The rams swung big on Goff, missed, and won a lombardi in the process

The niners gave up the farm for Lance, haven't even played him, and have found themselves as one of the best teams in the NFC for the last four to five years.

First round picks are great, but they aren't the end all be all to building a winning team in the nfl and not having one for two years, sure as hell shouldn't be a prerequisite for a decade of failure.

The panthers drafted Jason Peter, no pick due to the Gilbert trade in 99, and Rashard Anderson in 2000 (basically forfeiting three consecutive years of first round picks).  They were in the superbowl in 2003.

[CarolinaRideorDie]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

 Go big or go home--if that QB doesn't go big, Fitts will be going home. 

That's why I trust Fitt and Reich to make the right move at the QB position even if it costs a fortune to move up. Their careers are on the line and tied to this QB pick, I'm sure they know that. Freaking Rhule thought he really had 7 years to build here.  

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

That's why I trust Fitt and Reich to make the right move at the QB position even if it costs a fortune to move up. Their careers are on the line and tied to this QB pick, I'm sure they know that. Freaking Rhule thought he really had 7 years to build here.  

Frank will get a bit more leash than Fitts, that's unless we just suck.  If we are competitive and a rookie--> 2nd year QBs play is holding us back, then Fitts will likely get canned.

Worst case scenario is we are this year's Jets in two years.  A team loaded only held back by a QB draft bust.