REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

Using past contracts to make a point in the present. Gotta love that spin.

 

Again, when you can come at me with actual numbers.

lol, what are you even talking about

Prior contracts are always relevant.  They just factored into Bosa’s new deal.  It’s how they got to that number.   For Bosa….his brother Bosa, Mack and Garrett contracts all played into what his deal ended up being.  His had to top theirs and did. 

I came at your with actual numbers.  Guaranteed money of Von, Chubb, Reddick, etc and the VAST difference of that and Bosa.   That’s why there is no deal.  That’s not a 3 million difference.  It’s 60+.   And that’s why there is no deal yet. 

 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Fitt needs to be fired. Its honestly obvious now. This is an all time blunder.

[Gerry Green]

14 minutes ago, CRA said:

lol, what are you even talking about

Prior contracts are always relevant.  They just factored into Bosa’s new deal.  It’s how they got to that number.   For Bosa….his brother Bosa, Mack and Garrett contracts all played into what his deal ended up being.  His had to top theirs and did. 

I came at your with actual numbers.  Guaranteed money of Von, Chubb, Reddick, etc and the VAST difference of that and Bosa.   That’s why there is no deal.  That’s not a 3 million difference.  It’s 60+.   And that’s why there is no deal yet. 

 

 

Nope, I ain't playing this game with you. When you show actual numbers, then we can revisit this.

[ncstatekwi]

When y’all think this gets done?

[therealmjl]

Just now, ncstatekwi said:

When y’all think this gets done?

Never

[Gerry Green]

5 hours ago, Icege said:

TJ Watt's $28M was signed in September 2021 when the NFL salary cap was $182.5M. That $28M/yr avg was 15% of the cap.

If Brian Burns gets signed to a $28M/yr avg in 2023 when the salary cap is $224.8M that would account for 12.5% of the cap.

Paying Burns $28M/yr is not as impactful to the team as it was to the Steelers when TJ Watt signed his deal. Comparing the two is being willfully dismissive of the important detail that the cap today is over $40M more today.

 

Real numbers. Who'd a thunk it?

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

Real numbers. Who'd a thunk it?

Guaranteed money 

Reddick 30M, Von Miller 51M, Chubb 53M (all recent deals)

Bosa  122M

Bosa has a vastly different contract.  It’s on a different planet in terms of money . Because he isn’t just a pass rusher.   

[Gerry Green]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Guaranteed money 

Reddick 30M, Von Miller 51M, Chubb 53M (all recent deals)

Bosa  122M

Bosa has a vastly different contract.  It’s on a different planet in terms of money . Because he isn’t just a pass rusher.   

 

Thanks, I know those other deals are a few years old. but that is still one heck of a jump. Now we still don't know what Brian wants. It really is difficult to know how to take this. I want Burns, and I think he should be paid. But man, I'm conflicted as all get out.

 

Imagine if the Panthers gave him 122mil. This board would implode.

[therealmjl]

32 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Fitt needs to be fired. Its honestly obvious now. This is an all time blunder.

agreed

[tukafan21]

15 minutes ago, CRA said:

Guaranteed money 

Reddick 30M, Von Miller 51M, Chubb 53M (all recent deals)

Bosa  122M

Bosa has a vastly different contract.  It’s on a different planet in terms of money . Because he isn’t just a pass rusher.   

I'm not going to bother with digging into it with all these contracts, but there is also a difference between guaranteed money and "guaranteed" money with how teams structure contracts these days to manipulate the cap.

A lot of time there aren't actual guarantees, but the contracts are written in a way that there are essentially non-guaranteed guaranteed money.

They'll do something where Year 3 of the contract isn't guaranteed at signing, but it becomes guaranteed if you're on the roster on Day 1 of the league year after the first year of the contract.

Those are the type of things where even if the player has an injury or epic bust of a season, they aren't going to cut the player before year 2 starts solely because of the dead money hit they'd have to take.  That's a way for players to get "guarantees" that aren't actually considered in the guaranteed money up front when the deal is signed.

Same thing with how contracts can be structured to where some of the early years of the contracts are full salary payments, knowing they won't/can't be cut due to dead money hits, and in each offseason the team takes that upcoming year's salary, re-structures it as a roster bonus and then vet min salary for the season to keep pushing the cap down the road.

Miller is on the back end of his career, so that guarantee seems right, but it wouldn't shock me if the Chubb deal had some of the above things in the structure of the contract to where he knows he's actually "guaranteed" more money than that in the end.

Edited September 9, 2023 by tukafan21

[mrcompletely11]

And just like clockwork kupp is out for a quarter of the season.    Unreal.   

Edited September 9, 2023 by mrcompletely11

[Gerry Green]

17 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I'm not going to bother with digging into it with all these contracts, but there is also a difference between guaranteed money and "guaranteed" money with how teams structure contracts these days to manipulate the cap.

A lot of time there aren't actual guarantees, but the contracts are written in a way that there are essentially non-guaranteed guaranteed money.

They'll do something where Year 3 of the contract isn't guaranteed at signing, but it becomes guaranteed if you're on the roster on Day 1 of the league year after the first year of the contract.

Those are the type of things where even if the player has an injury or epic bust of a season, they aren't going to cut the player before year 2 starts solely because of the dead money hit they'd have to take.  That's a way for players to get "guarantees" that aren't actually considered in the guaranteed money up front when the deal is signed.

Same thing with how contracts can be structured to where some of the early years of the contracts are full salary payments, knowing they won't/can't be cut due to dead money hits, and in each offseason the team takes that upcoming year's salary, re-structures it as a roster bonus and then vet min salary for the season to keep pushing the cap down the road.

Miller is on the back end of his career, so that guarantee seems right, but it wouldn't shock me if the Chubb deal had some of the above things in the structure of the contract to where he knows he's actually "guaranteed" more money than that in the end.

 

I truly believe that no matter how this works out, a good majority of the Huddle is going to freak.

[CRA]

39 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I'm not going to bother with digging into it with all these contracts, but there is also a difference between guaranteed money and "guaranteed" money with how teams structure contracts these days to manipulate the cap.

A lot of time there aren't actual guarantees, but the contracts are written in a way that there are essentially non-guaranteed guaranteed money.

They'll do something where Year 3 of the contract isn't guaranteed at signing, but it becomes guaranteed if you're on the roster on Day 1 of the league year after the first year of the contract.

Those are the type of things where even if the player has an injury or epic bust of a season, they aren't going to cut the player before year 2 starts solely because of the dead money hit they'd have to take.  That's a way for players to get "guarantees" that aren't actually considered in the guaranteed money up front when the deal is signed.

Same thing with how contracts can be structured to where some of the early years of the contracts are full salary payments, knowing they won't/can't be cut due to dead money hits, and in each offseason the team takes that upcoming year's salary, re-structures it as a roster bonus and then vet min salary for the season to keep pushing the cap down the road.

Miller is on the back end of his career, so that guarantee seems right, but it wouldn't shock me if the Chubb deal had some of the above things in the structure of the contract to where he knows he's actually "guaranteed" more money than that in the end.

There is  just a reality.   Justin Jefferson and DJ Moore are in different tiers.   That doesn’t Moore isn’t a 1 or great. 

Brian Burns is in a different tier than Bosa.  Just like Chubb is.  Or Reddick is.  And the contracts do and should reflect it.  Which is that guaranteed money and that gigantic gap isn’t just creative contract wording. 
 

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

I truly believe that no matter how this works out, a good majority of the Huddle is going to freak.

No one will freak if Fitt does a good contract. They would celebrate it.  But Fitt worked himself into a bad negotiating corner.   Because we have a bad front office.