A loss to the Saints on MNF would be as bad a start as the Panthers can get.

[NAS]

Panthers fans need to relax, including myself. We’re turning into miserable fugs like Browns and Jets fans. Let’s just try to stay positive and manifest a good outcome with Bryce and this coaching staff.  Sam Mills would be very disappointed with us. 
#KeepPounding

[Hugor Hill]

If you think this team is a playoff team in the first year of a new coaching staff w/ a rookie QB then you are a really optimistic person and I serisouly hope you don't get depressed at seasons end. 

[tukafan21]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh sure. I mean it's perfectly reasonable to just ask any good players we have on our team to wait around till we're "ready" to draft that guy.

Good grief dude, this isn't Madden

There is a big difference between asking players to wait around until we're "ready" to draft that guy as you put it, and building an NFL franchise in a smart way, which is something players do understand.  The NFL isn't the NBA, you can't be bad for one season with upcoming cap budget, get a superstar in the draft and sign another max player to completely turnaround a franchise in one offseason.

Our roster was in a place where we could go either direction, a complete rebuild or decide to build up the team from where it was to try and contend with this base unit.

We could have chose the former, traded away Burns for picks, kept all our picks as is and draft say a pass rusher at #9, a CB with the other 2nd we gave away, not signed guys like Hurst, Thielen, or Sanders, vets on sizable contracts over the next 2 years.  Signed someone like Brissett to be our QB for the year and be like the Cardinals this year, be pretty open that we're in a total rebuild and be okay with it because we'll get a stud QB with our draft pick next year.

Other than Burns, there are no other players that could have walked away this offseason or next that would have been a huge loss.  So going with that strategy wouldn't have risked us upsetting any players we wouldn't have then been able to agree to a new deal.  Players would be able to see what was coming in next year's draft and understand why the team did it.  They wouldn't have tried any less hard to win and they wouldn't be upset with the franchise, it's not like the Cardinals players walked out on the team this year when they did it.

But we chose the latter

Which I have absolutely no issue with as I liked the base of our team coming out of last year.  We went out and got the #1 pick in the draft to get the QB.  We upgraded literally every single starting position on the field with the exception of there #1 WR (while upgrading the overall WR room instead).  We built a staff of half seriously successful NFL experience and half "the next HC candidate" type of guys.

Everything the team said and did, screamed "this is not a rebuild", particularly giving up our 1st round pick next year.  Doing all of that signaled that we had no intention of rebuilding, that we were looking to compete right now.

After all that, to try and excuse away an unsuccessful season as "it's year one of a rebuild" is just utter and complete crap.

That's my original point in all this, just that people need to stop trying to look at and call this year a rebuild, that's unacceptable way to look at the season with how the team operated this offseason.

When you improve the roster of a 7-9 team as much as this team did, particularly at QB, and improve the coaching staff as much as we did (and that's an absurd amount), then the whole "they're playing a new system and he's a rookie QB" excuse is just unbelievably weak.

Edited September 18, 2023 by tukafan21

[hepcat]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is what you call "not panicking"?

At no point did the team try to sell anybody on the idea that we were going to be dominant from day one. The idea of an all-star staff and a new rookie quarterback was valid, and everyone said they were going to try and win immediately.

But key on that word "try".

Fans having unrealistic expectations isn't the team's fault. It's the fans' fault

Again, I am not panicking. I’m just observing what is going on around the NFL and with the Panthers and stating my conclusions. The reality of the situation is a loss to the Saints digs a hole this young team probably can’t dig itself out of this year. Call it a rebuilding year or whatever excuse you want but that’s the reality.

The team spent an exorbitant amount of effort to sell the illusion of “legitimacy” with the “all star” coaching staff after 3 seasons of having known fraud as the head coach. I get it, they have to drum up interest in the team. They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel this time and hired a proven NFL coaching staff. What a concept!

But after what Steve Wilks was able to do with Matt Rhule’s roster compared to the price of the current coaching staff I’m expecting more than another “rebuilding” season. It’s time for results. Plenty of teams have success in the first season under a new staff. We’re just used to how bad the Panthers are and it’s a foreign concept to the fanbase it seems.

 

 

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I’m more concern about handing a top 5 pick to Chicago 

That bothers me too, but then I think, "Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield...." and I don't feel so bad.  They will undoubtedly (the way Fields is playing so far) be moving up to get a top 2 QB

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

There is a big difference between asking players to wait around until we're "ready" to draft that guy as you put it, and building an NFL franchise in a smart way, which is something players do understand.  The NFL isn't the NBA, you can't be bad for one season with upcoming cap budget, get a superstar in the draft and sign another max player to completely turnaround a franchise in one offseason.

Our roster was in a place where we could go either direction, a complete rebuild or decide to build up the team from where it was to try and contend with this base unit.

We could have chose the former, traded away Burns for picks, kept all our picks as is and draft say a pass rusher at #9, a CB with the other 2nd we gave away, not signed guys like Hurst, Thielen, or Sanders, vets on sizable contracts over the next 2 years.  Signed someone like Brissett to be our QB for the year and be like the Cardinals this year, be pretty open that we're in a total rebuild and be okay with it because we'll get a stud QB with our draft pick next year.

Other than Burns, there are no other players that could have walked away this offseason or next that would have been a huge loss.  So going with that strategy wouldn't have risked us upsetting any players we wouldn't have then been able to agree to a new deal.  Players would be able to see what was coming in next year's draft and understand why the team did it.  They wouldn't have tried any less hard to win and they wouldn't be upset with the franchise, it's not like the Cardinals players walked out on the team this year when they did it.

But we chose the latter

Which I have absolutely no issue with as I liked the base of our team coming out of last year.  We went out and got the #1 pick in the draft to get the QB.  We upgraded literally every single starting position on the field with the exception of there #1 WR (while upgrading the overall WR room instead).  We built a staff of half seriously successful NFL experience and half "the next HC candidate" type of guys.

Everything the team said and did, screamed "this is not a rebuild", particularly giving up our 1st round pick next year.  Doing all of that signaled that we had no intention of rebuilding, that we were looking to compete right now.

After all that, to try and excuse away an unsuccessful season as "it's year one of a rebuild" is just utter and complete crap.

That's my original point in all this, just that people need to stop trying to look at and call this year a rebuild, that's unacceptable way to look at the season with how the team operated this offseason.

When you improve the roster of a 7-9 team as much as this team did, particularly at QB, and improve the coaching staff as much as we did (and that's an absurd amount), then the whole "they're playing a new system and he's a rookie QB" excuse is just unbelievably weak.

Sorry dude, but the molded statement is just clueless.

There's not a single NFL team out there with all pros of every position. Hell there's not even any out there without at least one week unit. That's the reality of salary cap football with a talent pool spread across 32 teams.

The reality is we went for a franchise quarterback at a time when we believed one was available. Had we not, people would be screaming about that more so than anything else.

We've had the discussion waitinh till next year to get our franchise QB a million times on this board. It's just not a solid strategy.

When one is available, and you have the ability to get them by whatever means, you do it...and we did.

Any suggestion that we should have waited even longer than we already have is, shall we say, not going to be a popular argument.

(nor should it be)

[hepcat]

9 minutes ago, NAS said:

Panthers fans need to relax, including myself. We’re turning into miserable fugs like Browns and Jets fans. Let’s just try to stay positive and manifest a good outcome with Bryce and this coaching staff.  Sam Mills would be very disappointed with us. 
#KeepPounding

5 straight losing seasons will do that to a fanbase. Never having back to back winning seasons will do that to a fanbase. 

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Rhule was Tepper's call, assisted by Marty Hurney and Steven Drummond.

With Reich, Tepper largely abstained from the search. He didn't even take part in the final vote.

Meh, Tepper was in on every interview.  I don’t care what PR junk they put out there.  Tepper is getting what he wants in Carolina.   Buck starts and stops there IMO.  Everything big is at Tepper’s feet IMO. 

Just like with our QB. Rumor mill was that the staff wanted Stroud.  Tepper wanted Young.  We got Young. 

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

That bothers me too, but then I think, "Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield...." and I don't feel so bad.  They will undoubtedly (the way Fields is playing so far) be moving up to get a top 2 QB

Honestly if Bryce turns out great we won’t care what pick we gave the Bears in 2024.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Again, I am not panicking. I’m just observing what is going on around the NFL and with the Panthers and stating my conclusions. The reality of the situation is a loss to the Saints digs a hole this young team probably can’t dig itself out of this year. Call it a rebuilding year or whatever excuse you want but that’s the reality.

The team spent an exorbitant amount of effort to sell the illusion of “legitimacy” with the “all star” coaching staff after 3 seasons of having known fraud as the head coach. I get it, they have to drum up interest in the team. They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel this time and hired a proven NFL coaching staff. What a concept!

But after what Steve Wilks was able to do with Matt Rhule’s roster compared to the price of the current coaching staff I’m expecting more than another “rebuilding” season. It’s time for results. Plenty of teams have success in the first season under a new staff. We’re just used to how bad the Panthers are and it’s a foreign concept to the fanbase it seems.

Sorry, but all of this is basically panic talk.

It's year one with a new staff, new schemes, a new quarterback, etc. The idea that this is some sort of time for urgency is just unrealistic and emotion driven.

Demanding that guy's succeed and turn everything around in one year was the MO of a senile Al Davis. That's not someone whosr methods I'd like to copy.

[PantherInTheBullCity]

47 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, Bryce Young’s skill set is small ball.  He just doesn’t have the skill talent to play that game.  

nothing wrong with small ball if it is highly efficient.    But you need the skill players.  Brady did it in New England late in his career.  But he had the talent that suited it.  Awesome TE,  elite slot players, pass catching RBs. 

Is it, though? Granted, I didn't watch him a ton at Alabama, but it feels like this year the small-ball offense is very much intentional. We surrounded Bryce with a bunch of solid veterans - nobody that's going to play like a superstar, but a bunch of reliable, experienced skill players that can help Bryce ease into things.

It'll be interesting to see if we open up the playbook more as the season goes on.

[hepcat]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Meh, Tepper was in on every interview.  I don’t care what PR junk they put out there.  Tepper is getting what he wants in Carolina.   Buck starts and stops there IMO. 

Just like with our QB. Rumor mill was that the staff wanted Stroud.  Tepper wanted Young.  We got Young. 

I am not sure on that last part. Rumor mill also said they loved Richardson. I think the staff and Fitterer made the QB pick. The head coaching and GM hires have Tepper’s fingerprints everywhere though. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Meh, Tepper was in on every interview.  I don’t care what PR junk they put out there.  Tepper is getting what he wants in Carolina.   Buck starts and stops there IMO. 

Just like with our QB. Rumor mill was that the staff wanted Stroud.  Tepper wanted Young.  We got Young. 

Yes I know, it happened how you think it did regardless of what anybody who was actually there says.

I've generally assumed you know how dumb that actually sounds, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[hepcat]

3 minutes ago, PantherInTheBullCity said:

Is it, though? Granted, I didn't watch him a ton at Alabama, but it feels like this year the small-ball offense is very much intentional. We surrounded Bryce with a bunch of solid veterans - nobody that's going to play like a superstar, but a bunch of reliable, experienced skill players that can help Bryce ease into things.

It'll be interesting to see if we open up the playbook more as the season goes on.

I didn’t really want Young. He looked overmatched and overwhelmed against a mediocre Texas defense last season and I didn’t think he was going to be a great pro QB. Alabama as a whole is trending down.

But that’s who we have for better or worse and I hope he succeeds. It’s probably going to take awhile to get the right pieces since he’s the kind of QB that needs playmakers around him to elevate the offense. For a first overall pick I’m not thrilled about that but, again it’s what we have and we can just hope for the best.