DJ Johnson?

[pantherclaw]

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Johnson and a 5th round pick next year is all we have left from trading CMC, with the 2nd from that used in the Bryce trade.

The guy needs to pan out or the CMC trade will be an EPIC failure.

We always could have found a way to make the Bryce trade work without that 2nd, so I don’t really count much of that as coming from the CMC deal.  So to use the other 2 picks from it this year to trade up and take him, he needs to be active and make some plays.

These short sited hot takes are always hilarious!

 

[tukafan21]

10 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

These short sited hot takes are always hilarious!

 

How is it short sighted or a hot take?  I’m not saying that will or already has happened based on 3 weeks.  I’m just stating the obvious that he needs to work out for that CMC trade to pay off.

We got a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 2024 5th for CMC.

I’m just assuming the way this team drafts. That 5th next year is already a wasted pick from that trade, maybe it won’t be, but we haven’t hit on late picks in a while.

Yes, the 2nd from that trade was used to get Bryce, but like I said, not having that wouldn’t have stopped that trade, we’d have lost something else, but nothing huge, DJ and the firsts were what they were after.

That just leaves 2 picks left from the CMC trade, which we combined to trade up for DJ.  If he doesn’t work out, that’s the bulk of the CMC trade out the window.  

Tell me how that wouldn’t be an epic failure of a trade?

Edited September 29, 2023 by tukafan21

[BIGH2001]

29 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

These short sited hot takes are always hilarious!

 

How is it a hot take to say trading a top 5 player for a guy who can’t even get a jersey and a 5th round pick might turn out to be an epic failure? Are you slow?

Edited September 29, 2023 by BIGH2001

[pantherclaw]

47 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

How is it short sighted or a hot take?  I’m not saying that will or already has happened based on 3 weeks.  I’m just stating the obvious that he needs to work out for that CMC trade to pay off.

We got a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 2024 5th for CMC.

I’m just assuming the way this team drafts. That 5th next year is already a wasted pick from that trade, maybe it won’t be, but we haven’t hit on late picks in a while.

Yes, the 2nd from that trade was used to get Bryce, but like I said, not having that wouldn’t have stopped that trade, we’d have lost something else, but nothing huge, DJ and the firsts were what they were after.

That just leaves 2 picks left from the CMC trade, which we combined to trade up for DJ.  If he doesn’t work out, that’s the bulk of the CMC trade out the window.  

Tell me how that wouldn’t be an epic failure of a trade?

First, the draft is always a crap shot. Even with the best drafting teams. 

2nd, what we do with draft picks doesn't reflect back to trade. 

We traded an expensive player that most fans didn't even want on the team with the contract he had, and we got picks in return. 

Done. Trade was successful.  

The 49ers got arguably the best RB in the league, and we got a handful of picks that our front office  was willing to accept for. Successful trade. 

We then used used multiple picks and moved our best receiver that many, including Steve Smith, says wasn't a true elite #1 receiver, to be able to trade up to grab the teams franchise QB. CMC was traded away for the team to aquire their franchise QB.  Successful.  

Nothing that we do with the remaining picks has ANYTHING to do with trading away CMC. 

 

[pantherclaw]

34 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

How is it a hot take to say trading a top 5 player for a guy who can’t even get a jersey and a 5th round pick might turn out to be an epic failure? Are you slow?

Yup. You sure outsmarted me. 

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

First, the draft is always a crap shot. Even with the best drafting teams. 

2nd, what we do with draft picks doesn't reflect back to trade. 

We traded an expensive player that most fans didn't even want on the team with the contract he had, and we got picks in return. 

Done. Trade was successful.  

The 49ers got arguably the best RB in the league, and we got a handful of picks that our front office  was willing to accept for. Successful trade. 

We then used used multiple picks and moved our best receiver that many, including Steve Smith, says wasn't a true elite #1 receiver, to be able to trade up to grab the teams franchise QB. CMC was traded away for the team to aquire their franchise QB.  Successful.  

Nothing that we do with the remaining picks has ANYTHING to do with trading away CMC. 

 

Wow there's a lot of crazy in here to dissect.

First, I agree the draft is a crapshoot, that's why I never liked trading the best offensive weapon in the game for anything less than a first, especially it being a late second and then a bunch of mid round picks.  

Second, What we do with the picks ABSOLUTELY reflects back on the trade.  You said I was being shortsighted, but you want to judge a trade where you only get draft picks in return on your initial views on it, and not how you end up using those draft picks?!?!?!

THAT is being shortsighted in viewing the trade.

Third, we used one of 4 picks from the CMC trade towards Bryce and it was the 4th best asset we gave up in the trade, it 1,000% could have and would have been completed without that 2nd rounder, nothing about the CMC trade should be judged on Bryce.

Fourth and finally... even if you want to include judgment of Bryce, that actually makes it worse that we then traded away CMC, Moore, 2 Firsts, and a Second to draft a QB with Bryce's physical limitations and injury concerns.  A QB you give up THAT much for needs to become a 1st ballot HOF and/or win you a SB ring for that to even remotely be called a success, that's a huge bet to put on a QB who needs to become the biggest outlier at his position in the history of this league.

Edited September 29, 2023 by tukafan21

[BIGH2001]

12 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Wow there's a lot of crazy in here to dissect.

First, I agree the draft is a crapshoot, that's why I never liked trading the best offensive weapon in the game for anything less than a first, especially it being a late second and then a bunch of mid round picks.  

Second, What we do with the picks ABSOLUTELY reflects back on the trade.  You said I was being shortsighted, but you want to judge a trade where you only get draft picks in return on your initial views on it, and not how you end up using those draft picks?!?!?!

THAT is being shortsighted in viewing the trade.

Third, we used one of 4 picks from the CMC trade towards Bryce and it was the 4th best asset we gave up in the trade, it 1,000% could have and would have been completed without that 2nd rounder, nothing about the CMC trade should be judged on Bryce.

Fourth and finally... even if you want to include judgment of Bryce, that actually makes it worse that we then traded away CMC, Moore, 2 Firsts, and a Second to draft a QB with Bryce's physical limitations and injury concerns.  A QB you give up THAT much for needs to become a 1st ballot HOF and/or win you a SB ring for that to even remotely be called a success, that's a huge bet to put on a QB who needs to become the biggest outlier at his position in the history of this league.

Absolutely insane compensation for a wildly undersized QB + a reach pick who will probably be cut next year. Let’s hope Bryce becomes Drew Brees. Odds are against it. 

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

Absolutely insane compensation for a wildly undersized QB + a reach pick who will probably be cut next year. Let’s hope Bryce becomes Drew Brees. Odds are against it. 

Yup, it's as simple as this, we traded....

CMC, DJ Moore, 2022 9th Overall Pick, 2023 1st, and 2024 2nd

For

Bryce Young, DJ Johnson, 2024 5th

Which just depresses me to look at, so I try to separate the two trades and say we'd still have found a way to trade for Bryce without that 2nd from the CMC trade, lol.

But sure, let's keep trying to convince ourselves that the CMC trade was a good one, that was just awful, nowhere near the return for a player of his caliber. 

[Jackie Lee]

22 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Yup, it's as simple as this, we traded....

CMC, DJ Moore, 2022 9th Overall Pick, 2023 1st, and 2024 2nd

For

Bryce Young, DJ Johnson, 2024 5th

Which just depresses me to look at, so I try to separate the two trades and say we'd still have found a way to trade for Bryce without that 2nd from the CMC trade, lol.

But sure, let's keep trying to convince ourselves that the CMC trade was a good one, that was just awful, nowhere near the return for a player of his caliber. 

Maybe add Sammy D to that haul lol. 

[pantherclaw]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Wow there's a lot of crazy in here to dissect.

First, I agree the draft is a crapshoot, that's why I never liked trading the best offensive weapon in the game for anything less than a first, especially it being a late second and then a bunch of mid round picks.  

Second, What we do with the picks ABSOLUTELY reflects back on the trade.  You said I was being shortsighted, but you want to judge a trade where you only get draft picks in return on your initial views on it, and not how you end up using those draft picks?!?!?!

THAT is being shortsighted in viewing the trade.

Third, we used one of 4 picks from the CMC trade towards Bryce and it was the 4th best asset we gave up in the trade, it 1,000% could have and would have been completed without that 2nd rounder, nothing about the CMC trade should be judged on Bryce.

Fourth and finally... even if you want to include judgment of Bryce, that actually makes it worse that we then traded away CMC, Moore, 2 Firsts, and a Second to draft a QB with Bryce's physical limitations and injury concerns.  A QB you give up THAT much for needs to become a 1st ballot HOF and/or win you a SB ring for that to even remotely be called a success, that's a huge bet to put on a QB who needs to become the biggest outlier at his position in the history of this league.

Perspective is everything.  

No.matter the perspectives, yours, mine, none of them match the franchise's. 

Lol @ crazy.  That's  a similar perspective I share when I read your post regarding this subject. 

 

[Buckets]

There's only one other healthy 3rd round pick that hasn't played yet

 

DJ is and was an awful draft pick

[mrcompletely11]

8 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

First, the draft is always a crap shot. Even with the best drafting teams. 

2nd, what we do with draft picks doesn't reflect back to trade. 

 

Lol wut?

[pantherclaw]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Lol wut?

The trade was all about acquiring draft capital.  This isn't rocket science.  

[TheCasillas]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Lol wut?

 

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

The trade was all about acquiring draft capital.  This isn't rocket science.  

I agree with @pantherclawhere. So does Bleacher Report’s podcast gridiron something.

 

they did a huge breakdown on this and why playing back picks actually made against the value of a trade. They basically kept it simple and said that it is two different deals, not just one big deal. When trading assets like draft picks you are trading the value of them based off of a points system, and not the player you get for picking them. 
 

basically we traded CMC for x points in Draft picks. Deal done. 
 

the next deal we traded x points in draft picks for x points for draft pick that led to DJ. 
 

they used the dolphins trades in the late 2010s as examples, and shared that you could follow that trade line for 5 years before guessing whether it was worth it. The total trade line had 13 different draft picks and 5 players. Pending where on the timeline you chose to evaluate the deal… it looked good, bad, ugly and beautiful at different points over the course of 5 years. Basically leading to the conclusion that you can’t judge a deal based on the assets’ end, only at the time of trade.