The impressive throw you wanted from Bryce..but didn't get

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

This is when the ball needed to be thrown. Bryce got rave reviews for his ability to throw with anticipation. So how does he not see this? When Theilen hit the defender with the double move he was going to be open 

Agree. People are missing the anticipation, i.e. throwing a WR open or getting rid of the ball before the WR is finished with the route/turns. If you wait until Theilen is deep in the end zone it’s way too late.

The other thing that disturbs me as much is the throw at the end of the play. The DL knocks it away out of bounds but Thielen is blanketed at this point running to the corner and Young tries to throw it at this point when no one is open. That ball should be thrown out of bounds at this point so you avoid the sack and the interception. He doesn’t throw it anticipating Thielen’s route but he does throw it in desperation.

Just an FYI, I don’t believe this was 4th down, where forcing a throw doesn’t matter as much. Pretty sure we got sacked on 4th to end the game.

[KSpan]

9 hours ago, WUnderhill said:

The ball doesn’t teleport. 6 seconds he’s just getting his feet set again, Thielen is at the back of the end zone with no more space to work, and the underneath DB is drifting back into the passing lane to make a play on the ball. And he can’t lead Thielen with the ball away from the underneath DB because there’s another DB closing on that side. If you watch the play you see that but of course you won’t acknowledge it. That’s a 35 air yard throw you expect to get there before the DB can make up 5 in a direction he’s already moving. That’s a tight window. Sure he coulda chucked it and seen if Thielen would play the ball better than 2 DBs, but then you’d all be complaining about that too.

It’s clear he is trying to play pretty risk averse, and it’s perfectly reasonable if he saw the DB drifting towards Thielen and decided not to pull the trigger. He is looking that direction in the video. You can argue you want to see him take that risk. The problem is this thread is made on the premise that there was no risk, it was a clean pocket, etc. etc. which just isn’t true. I personally think the window is closed after he can’t step up and make the throw from the pocket. That is the clear moment that Thielen is about to come free and it looks to me that’s what Bryce wants to do. Unfortunately Moton was on ice skates. At one point both Moton’s feet left the ground. Our oline may be the worst in the league right now.

Almost like this is a situation where arm strength would come into play, the ability to throw 'off platform' as the buzzword currently is.

I don't disagree with any of your second paragraph but Bryce's play is not NFL level right now. It is what it is. 

[woahfraze]

3 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Agree. People are missing the anticipation, i.e. throwing a WR open or getting rid of the ball before the WR is finished with the route/turns. If you wait until Theilen is deep in the end zone it’s way too late.

The other thing that disturbs me as much is the throw at the end of the play. The DL knocks it away out of bounds but Thielen is blanketed at this point running to the corner and Young tries to throw it at this point when no one is open. That ball should be thrown out of bounds at this point so you avoid the sack and the interception. He doesn’t throw it anticipating Thielen’s route but he does throw it in desperation.

Just an FYI, I don’t believe this was 4th down, where forcing a throw doesn’t matter as much. Pretty sure we got sacked on 4th to end the game.

I can’t tell whether Bryce didn’t throw this because he didn’t didn’t see Thielen likely to win on the double move, he didn’t trust his arm, or if he wasn’t prepared to throw it because his footwork on the drop back didn’t have him in position to make the throw—his body isn’t lined up to make the throw in this screenshot. 
 

He’s shown great anticipation on some other throws so far, and it his head is pointing at Thielen, so I’d assume it’s either a lack of confidence in his arm (hopefully just due to him still lacking familiarity with the speed of NFL defenders…while his arm isn’t a cannon, I think he has the arm to make this throw), a footwork issue (coachable and correctable), or he couldn’t actually see Thielen over the line (most concerning since you can’t fix height and the only way to mitigate is tailoring the offense to it with moving the pocket and scheming your pass blocks to open up sight lines, which likely only works with certain routes). 
 

I hope to god it’s not the last one. 

[WhoKnows]

9 minutes ago, woahfraze said:

I can’t tell whether Bryce didn’t throw this because he didn’t didn’t see Thielen likely to win on the double move, he didn’t trust his arm, or if he wasn’t prepared to throw it because his footwork on the drop back didn’t have him in position to make the throw—his body isn’t lined up to make the throw in this screenshot. 
 

He’s shown great anticipation on some other throws so far, and it his head is pointing at Thielen, so I’d assume it’s either a lack of confidence in his arm (hopefully just due to him still lacking familiarity with the speed of NFL defenders…while his arm isn’t a cannon, I think he has the arm to make this throw), a footwork issue (coachable and correctable), or he couldn’t actually see Thielen over the line (most concerning since you can’t fix height and the only way to mitigate is tailoring the offense to it with moving the pocket and scheming your pass blocks to open up sight lines, which likely only works with certain routes). 
 

I hope to god it’s not the last one. 

I agree and I worry as well. I know people say not to worry about the height, but if you look at the interceptions he threw week 1, Bozeman was engaged with a DL right between Young and the WR. I think it was the first one but it made me feel like he couldn’t see abates at all. If his view is a problem and he doesn’t have a cannon, that could be a big issue. The cannon would allow him a fraction of extra time to get the ball where it needs to be while seeing more.

You are also not the first talking about his footwork. He might not be able throw a 35 yard dot without his feet being properly positioned.

[woahfraze]

12 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I agree and I worry as well. I know people say not to worry about the height, but if you look at the interceptions he threw week 1, Bozeman was engaged with a DL right between Young and the WR. I think it was the first one but it made me feel like he couldn’t see abates at all. If his view is a problem and he doesn’t have a cannon, that could be a big issue. The cannon would allow him a fraction of extra time to get the ball where it needs to be while seeing more.

You are also not the first talking about his footwork. He might not be able throw a 35 yard dot without his feet being properly positioned.

To be fair, most NFL QBs won’t be able to throw a “dot” without better positioning. It’s just a question of whether Bryce would be able to get it to Thielen well enough or if this throw would float enough to allow the defenders to close. I suspect he wouldn’t be able to, but it’s not an issue if he corrects the footwork. 

On the Bates interceptions, I do think Bryce was able to see him. I think he didn’t expect Bates to be able to get there and he found out in his first real live NFL action what NFL game speed looks like. And I don’t actually think that one was an arm strength issue so much as Bryce being a tick too late releasing, once again because of his footwork. That Ringer video making the rounds showed the extra half step in Bryce’s shotgun drop that delayed him just slightly in delivering the ball. 

I think Bryce has a good enough arm to succeed in the league. He needs to improve his timing and footwork. It’ll come with more reps and coaching. If it’s a height issue, we’ll we’re boned. 

[*FreeFua*]

2 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Agree. People are missing the anticipation, i.e. throwing a WR open or getting rid of the ball before the WR is finished with the route/turns. If you wait until Theilen is deep in the end zone it’s way too late.

The other thing that disturbs me as much is the throw at the end of the play. The DL knocks it away out of bounds but Thielen is blanketed at this point running to the corner and Young tries to throw it at this point when no one is open. That ball should be thrown out of bounds at this point so you avoid the sack and the interception. He doesn’t throw it anticipating Thielen’s route but he does throw it in desperation.

Just an FYI, I don’t believe this was 4th down, where forcing a throw doesn’t matter as much. Pretty sure we got sacked on 4th to end the game.

The worst part about this is we absolutely HAD to have a touchdown here. It was the end of the game. So what? You didn’t like this look and thought you’d get a better on 4th down? No chance. As soon as the ball was snapped you could tell if Theilen got his guy to bite (he did) on the first move it was a layup for a touchdown. 

[Jackie Lee]

14 hours ago, WUnderhill said:

The ball doesn’t teleport. 6 seconds he’s just getting his feet set again, Thielen is at the back of the end zone with no more space to work, and the underneath DB is drifting back into the passing lane to make a play on the ball. And he can’t lead Thielen with the ball away from the underneath DB because there’s another DB closing on that side. If you watch the play you see that but of course you won’t acknowledge it. That’s a 35 air yard throw you expect to get there before the DB can make up 5 in a direction he’s already moving. That’s a tight window. Sure he coulda chucked it and seen if Thielen would play the ball better than 2 DBs, but then you’d all be complaining about that too.

It’s clear he is trying to play pretty risk averse, and it’s perfectly reasonable if he saw the DB drifting towards Thielen and decided not to pull the trigger. He is looking that direction in the video. You can argue you want to see him take that risk. The problem is this thread is made on the premise that there was no risk, it was a clean pocket, etc. etc. which just isn’t true. I personally think the window is closed after he can’t step up and make the throw from the pocket. That is the clear moment that Thielen is about to come free and it looks to me that’s what Bryce wants to do. Unfortunately Moton was on ice skates. At one point both Moton’s feet left the ground. Our oline may be the worst in the league right now.

Time stamped for you. JT is actually even more critical of this than I thought he would be 

 

[PantherFanInPhilly]

10 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Time stamped for you. JT is actually even more critical of this than I thought he would be 

 

It amazes me how many Panther/Bryce fans have acted like this is some insanely hard pass that only a cpl QB's in the league can possibly make. 

[*FreeFua*]

8 minutes ago, PantherFanInPhilly said:

It amazes me how many Panther/Bryce fans have acted like this is some insanely hard pass that only a cpl QB's in the league can possibly make. 

Yep Andy Dalton makes that throw 

[KSpan]

22 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Time stamped for you. JT is actually even more critical of this than I thought he would be 

 

Man, that very first play had a receiver (Chark) running free just deeper than Thielen. Bryce puts that deep enough and no one else is getting near that.

[mrcompletely11]

23 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Time stamped for you. JT is actually even more critical of this than I thought he would be 

 

super processor

Most nfl ready since Luck

conviction

[Jackie Lee]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Man, that very first play had a receiver (Chark) running free just deeper than Thielen. Bryce puts that deep enough and no one else is getting near that.

Yeah Chark would have walked in with that one. Safety didn't seem too concerned about the throw being attempted. Bryce had time to launch it too

[PanthersGOATFan336]

So Bryce isn't the most NFL ready draft prospect?

[mrcompletely11]

Dr herry knows what’s up