Why the Panthers Should NOT want Ben Johnson

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

in house culture, work environment, accountability is a real thing though that matters.  I think ours is weak and has a lot to do with our hires at HC and GM.  

lot of good X and O guys have proven to be weak in that area.  I think you got to have both from top. 

It doesn't all have to come from the HC though. Look at the Dolphins. Young, hit shot wiz kid, almost childlike acting HC but the GM is a lifer who has been around forever. Same with the DC. You do need a blend within the organization but no one person can wear all the hats.

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It doesn't all have to come from the HC though. Look at the Dolphins. Young, hit shot wiz kid, almost childlike acting HC but the GM is a lifer who has been around forever. Same with the DC. You do need a blend within the organization but no one person can wear all the hats.

I don't disagree, that's why I included the GM hire with the HC.   Every org needs that in house stuff.  It matters.  It's a huge weakness for us.  It's got to come from somewhere in the future for us.   Just hiring a some young hot shot HC isn't some auto fix the mess Tepper has created in Carolina. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I don't disagree, that's why I included the GM hire with the HC.   Every org needs that in house stuff.  It matters.  It's a huge weakness for us.  It's got to come from somewhere in the future for us.   Just hiring a some young hot shot HC isn't some auto fix the mess Tepper has created in Carolina. 

Everything football related is a huge weakness for the football organization that Tepper has built. It's just been a revolving door of guys who Tepper had deemed the one who is going to wave a magic wand and fix everything.

[ProcessBlue2]

I'm not going to be upset if we don't get Johnson. Honestly, there is so much hype around him it makes me nervous that he will end up being a bust. 

The main reason I don't mind if we don't get Johnson is we really need a culture-setter type. We can't seem to do anything right, have zero discipline, get pushed around, hell we only have like 2 guys who has actually seen a winning season in a Panthers' uniform. Need a culture reset big time. 

That's why I don't really care if we get a Belichick, Harbaugh, or Quinn for 2-3 years. Build a culture and learn to do the basic things right and then go get the next Ben Johnson, because there will be one. 

I think Campbell is that guy in Detroit, I don't think he is going to take them far in the postseason. He is that bridge that is going to connect the old Lions to this more refined Lions team that will attract a candidate that will take them there in a year or two. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, Khaki Lackey said:

This guy's take isn't that great.

That's being generous.

His entire 7 minute rant is based on the 15 million a year rumor and it's full of completely idiotic takes.

The video is garbage.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

"Leader of men" is the coaching equivalent of "alpha" for players. Just a tired old stereotypical trope that doesn't really mean anything beyond "this person checks the stereotype box if I was casting this role for a movie".

The last leader of men we were offered wanted an OC whose currently being accused of running a high school level offense and a DC who'd pretty well proven he wasn't up to the task.

It's the same as choosing political leaders because they give great speeches rather than whether or not they actually have a clue what they're doing.

[BrianS]

You need a coach who gives you an advantage.  Period.  Has nothing to do with the old "leader of men" trope.  What kind of culture did the Dolphins have before McDaniel?  The Lions before the current staff?  Bengals?

All the teams that turned things around got two things right:  Coach and QB.  That's it.  You get those two things right and your franchise can flip immediately.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, BrianS said:

You need a coach who gives you an advantage.  Period.  Has nothing to do with the old "leader of men" trope.  What kind of culture did the Dolphins have before McDaniel?  The Lions before the current staff?  Bengals?

All the teams that turned things around got two things right:  Coach and QB.  That's it.  You get those two things right and your franchise can flip immediately.

largely.  I'd argue QB still matters more than your HC.  It's the most important puzzle piece. 

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I'll go on record saying I don't find Ben Johnson to be compelling at all.  I want Bill with McDaniels as OC.  

No offense to you, but what has either done without Brady… ?

they had their moment together, the moment is over…bill needs to be on his boat somewhere 

if you want someone from  the patriots,  it’s probably Mayo.

 

[Carolina Mike]

After watching the video, I’m in 100% agreement with his take. Wow!

[Martin]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's being generous.

His entire 7 minute rant is based on the 15 million a year rumor and it's full of completely idiotic takes.

The video is garbage.

The take that he should take less just to show he really wants the job is hilarious and delusional. There is no single argument against Ben in there outside him asking for a market based salary. Garbage sums it up well.

[BlackPanther22]

21 minutes ago, Martin said:

The take that he should take less just to show he really wants the job is hilarious and delusional. There is no single argument against Ben in there outside him asking for a market based salary. Garbage sums it up well.

Also, idk why we care how much coaches get paid to begin with. It affects nobody but Tepper and his steep pockets. He could give Ben 20 million dollars and I would not care as long as he does his job well. 

[Mr. Scot]

48 minutes ago, Martin said:

The take that he should take less just to show he really wants the job is hilarious and delusional. There is no single argument against Ben in there outside him asking for a market based salary. Garbage sums it up well.

Yeah, we need to wait for a guy who wants the job so bad that he'll take less money just for the privilege.

 

...

 

Good luck with that

(also while we're at it, let's try taking that same approach with players)

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Mills]

13 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've seen the results of Tepper hiring "leaders of men". Rhule was a "leader of men". Reich was a "leader of men". Wilks was the best of his "leaders of men".

I feel like when you have to hang your hat on a guy being a "leader of men" to justify your hire it's because you're fresh out of football justifications. Watch clips of Mike McDaniel. Does that guy strike you as a "leader of men"? He seems like an 19 year old TikToker. But it doesn't matter because the guy knows fuging football and that's what actually gets the respect of NFL players over the long haul. "Leaders of men" might pull the wool over their eyes in the short term but ultimately these guys want successful careers with wins, legacies, and fat ass bank accounts and "leaders of men" can only do so much. Football savants can do a lot more. I don't know that that's what Ben Johnson is but I definitely know that I don't give a fug whether or not he's a "leader of men".

I somewhat agree. I also feel that guys like Demeco, Tomlin, Dan campbell, Sirianni all possess a certain hard nosed quality that shapes the football culture. I do believe that teams take on the personality of their coach to a point.

Yes Mike McDonald is an offensive savant. His team also tucks their nuts when they get hit in the mouth. The 9ers always play Shanahan football, even when McDonald was on staff. Leaders of men is an overused cliche. BEING a hard nosed leader is not. 

 Knowing football aint enough. Reich knows football too.