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Jeff Howe swaps Young and Stroud

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Panthers Fan 69 Grand Master

Panthers Fan 69

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 10:18 AM, Captroop said:

I always hear the, "Stroud wouldn't have looked as good on the Panthers this year if they'd taken him."

And while I agree he definitely would NOT have taken this team to the playoffs, I think that's an incredibly short-sighted view. The team won't be bad forever. But will Bryce ever play like a superstar?

I think you flip the question; if Bryce had been on Houston, would he have achieved the same level of success? Really, do you think he would have?

I just don't see anything in Bryce's game that leads me to think he will ever play up to Stroud's level.

Agreed. Pillows is major bust. Next year will be more of the same. 

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SOJA Veteran

SOJA

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, top dawg said:

I agree. But if you ask me to start a team today, I'm running to the podium and taking Mahomes before all. 

oh of course of course. I'm saying he has the *potential* to get there. Or at very minimum a consistent top 3 QB

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Mage Grand Master

Mage

Posted
Posted

CJ Stroud looks like a future Hall of Fame QB.  And I don't say that lightly.

It ain't even about the numbers.  It isn't about the Texans winning games and going to the postseason.

It is all about the throws he makes.  That isn't scheme.  That isn't supporting cast.  His deep ball is just... you can't do anything about it.  I always knew he was a great passer though.  It was his ability to move in the pocket and be a playmaker outside of it that I questioned.  But I think he's proving me wrong on that.  He will never be much of a runner, but he can rip it downfield accurately while on the move.  It is a little similar to Drew Brees.  Brees wasn't someone who was taking off and running, but the way he could navigate the pocket was second to none.  

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CPF4LIFE Grand Master

CPF4LIFE

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 5:28 PM, GoobyPls said:

Dalton had nearly 60 attempts and before that last drive had 260 yards and one TD (most that came on a broken play)  and we were losing by 17 points.

Let's apply some context here...andy dalton had 60 attenpts as a result of all the penalties on the o line that game. You are backed up and need to get yards in chunks is gonna lead to more throws and screens. Its a QBs jobs to identify breakdowns in defenses and take advantage, if bryce did more of that he would have had a more productive rookie year. So you are basically criticizing dalton for being able to take advantage of defensive breakdowns and coaching staff having more confidence in him to make throws downfield. We had 13 more games to see that just wasnt gonna work for bryce so we had to lean on the run more. Dalton throwing and chuba running the ball mostly likely wins us more than 2 games. 

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

STAY AWAY from Alabama QBs

 

 

How to put yourself in a position to get fired without playing a game yet. If he thinks Mac is his answer then he is already done as a HC.

And I liked Mayo but he is proving why good defensive guys shouldn't be HCs.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, SOJA said:

I think this is the pill that's hardest to swallow. 

I know this board is very down on Bryce but I don't think he's as bas as this year suggests. But CJ has shown some best QB in the league type stuff this year. I think at his best Bryce could be a fringe Top 10 QB. At this best CJ may be the best QB in the league. 

 

It doesn't help that I really wanted Stroud 

Pray tell who in the current top 10 (as subjective as that even is) could you honestly envision Bryce being better than?

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

 

Another one

 

 

If the Bills can't get to the Super Bowl with Josh Allen there's no way in hell the Dolphins are with Tua even with all that talent.

There goes the one comparison BY extremists had to cling to. And like the Sam Darnold to Ryan Tannehill comparison a few years ago before Sam had his meltdown this has gone down in flames too.

People here need to start learning.

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strato Grand Master

strato

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Waldo said:

How to put yourself in a position to get fired without playing a game yet. If he thinks Mac is his answer then he is already done as a HC.

And I liked Mayo but he is proving why good defensive guys shouldn't be HCs.

It could be Mayo proving why Mayo should or shouldn’t be. 

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strato Grand Master

strato

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

If he is betting that hard on Mac already then it's a firm shouldn't. There is no mystery with Mac, he isn't it. 

My objection was to lumping all defensive guys in with condiment man. These 30th rated QB types don’t interest me at all. Including ours.

You don’t think we are going to end up with a coach that is basically the same? 

I sort of think that if you go into that coach’s interview without the whole thing being about getting Young weapons and protection, you aren’t getting a second look. 

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, strato said:

My objection was to lumping all defensive guys in with condiment man. These 30th rated QB types don’t interest me at all. Including ours.

You don’t think we are going to end up with a coach that is basically the same? 

I sort of think that if you go into that coach’s interview without the whole thing being about getting Young weapons and protection, you aren’t getting a second look. 

I agree with that. Ohh our HC will be worse than Mayo, that seems like a lock. Mayo will still head the 3rd best team in that division and leaning on Mac will keep them in 3rd place. The Panthers are more in the Jets position, a hard 4th no matter all the loud and expensive moves they make.

Yeah I lumped them all together because most can't take that step away from being deffensive guy over HC. Rivera and Fox both made it to a SB but couldn't get over the hump or return as HC. A defensive HC that can step away from the mentality and become more offensive in their tendancies is rare, incredibly rare. BB did it for a bit but he reverted in his last years with Brady.

I think you nailed why it happens. Mac is great, blah blah blah, winning D, blah blah blah, super bowl lol. That is a coach who will get fired for that exact reason, just like they will here when it becomes an imposible goal to reach. Can't make a superstar out of a dud but owners arw still looking to a Brady to save them regardless if that was an exceptional exception. Hell Purdy just rolled the clock back on another one popping out 10 years from now.

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    • CRA
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By CRA · Posted

      I don't need that many words to say Bryce Young has not yet surpassed the caliber of QB play that current Joe Flacco represents.   I have watched every game Bryce has played.  He doesn't give you average QB play.   He can't make a ton of throws.  Bryce is consistent overall in what he is.  You can take outlier games on both ends of the spectrum out of play and judge him or any QB.....for Bryce it is unquestioned bottom of the league play.  All you have to do is watch the two play.  Flacco is good enough that if you can keep up right and give him time.....he presents a level of play Bryce can't do as a passer  
    • ForJimmy
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By ForJimmy · Posted

      Not sure.  Which ones have more GWDs in the same time frame?
    • MasterAwesome
      How many Qbs can you name better than Bryce Young?

      By MasterAwesome · Posted

      You kinda gloss over this, but this is really at the crux of this whole argument....which Flacco are we talking here?  You bring up that he played with 3 different teams but ignore the fact that his performance varied quite a bit from team to team. 2024 Colts: 65.3% completion, 12 TDs, 7 INTs, 220.1 YPG, 7.1 Y/A, 90.5 rating 2025 Browns: 58.1% completion, 2 TDs, 6 INTs, 203.8 YPG, 5.1 Y/A, 60.3 rating 2025 Bengals: 63.4% completion, 12 TDs, 3 INTs, 290.6 YPG, 6.8 Y/A, 96.2 rating 2025 Flacco (Browns + Bengals): 61.1% completion, 14 TDs, 9 INTs, 252.0 YPG, 6.1 Y/A, 80.8 rating vs. 2025 Bryce: 62.7% completion, 14 TDs, 7 INTs, 196.2 YPG, 6.2 Y/A, 86.0 rating I bolded the comparison that I think objectively makes the most sense...just simply comparing the two QBs for the entire season.  Otherwise you'd be cherry-picking Flacco's time with the Bengals and ignoring his earlier stint with the Browns, which sounds an awful lot like people cherry-picking Bryce's stats in the second half of last season. So again, which Flacco?  Basically the only thing consistent with Flacco across each of these teams was his W/L records: 2-4, 1-3, and 1-4 respectively.  I'd say if we're comparing each version of him to Bryce this year: Colts Flacco > 2025 Bryce, Browns Flacco <<< 2025 Bryce, Bengals Flacco >> 2025 Bryce, and 2025 Flacco < 2025 Bryce - Flacco this year only beats out Bryce on YPG but in part because he throws significantly more passes (almost 60 YPG more than Bryce, despite a lower Y/A which is pretty telling) .  Flacco is maybe the most apt case study about how important a QB's circumstances are to his success.  He was easily a bottom 3 QB in Cleveland and arguably top 10-15 in Cincinnati...and we're talking about the same player from the same season.  All that happened was taking him from one team and plopping him onto another team; nothing inherently changed about him as a QB.  Funny enough I think that's all that one dude on here was trying to say when he made that long poorly-received post after having an epiphany working for PFF behind the scenes or w/e.  That it's largely short-sighted to just try to evaluate QBs in a vacuum when there are so many variables at play that ultimately decide whether a QB is successful or not.   I think Bryce has been mediocre at best this season and I'm ready to move on regardless of how he ends this season - I'm highly skeptical a strong end to the season will carry over into next year considering how last year ended and this year began.  I would certainly agree that he's a bottom-third QB this year.  I just don't understand you scoffing indignantly at anyone holding the opinion that Bryce has had a better season than Flacco...I can only assume it's recency bias.  Or maybe you know the stats don't support you, which is why you're conjuring up the god-forsaken arbitrary "eyeball test" which is the kinda thing people in here were saying about Fields for years, pinky promising that he really truly was a franchise QB despite his awful stats.  Perhaps it's called the eyeball test because I roll my eyes anytime I hear someone bring it up seriously as an argument.
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