Scouting Department vs. Front Office

[kungfoodude]

Given our rich history to draft insane busts(TMJ, Mingo, Corral being recent examples) but spanning multiple iterations of General Managers, do you think the core of the problem is our management or our scouting department?

Do we have long tenured scouts that have been here through multiple terrible drafts?

[Khyber53]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Given our rich history to draft insane busts(TMJ, Mingo, Corral being recent examples) but spanning multiple iterations of General Managers, do you think the core of the problem is our management or our scouting department?

Do we have long tenured scouts that have been here through multiple terrible drafts?

I've been banging on this drum for about four years now. We once had decent scouts, and now, not so much. Actually, our scouting department seems to rely on Reddit rumor boards and grocery store newstand staples to do most of their work. 

It's hard to believe it, but the good ones left with Rivera and Hurney, leaving behind a patchwork of guys that couldn't get the job anywhere else. And then we brought in Fitterer and now Mushy-head Morgan to do the final picking.

But let's not just slam our college scouting group. We've not been very good at grabbing and finding vet talent either. Heck, that was Gettleman's forte (he was a helluva dumpster diver) and Hurney wasn't bad at it either. 

But man, we've not had decent drafting in some time. We haven't had competent free agency work in some time either. 

And Lord, do we ever need it. Because what we have on the field right now, the survivors at least at this point, just aren't up to snuff. We look like a team picked up from a Goodwill Store and day labororers from the parking lot of Dick's Sporting Goods.

[CBDellinger]

There's one short, fat and ugly common denominator here... the toad of appaloosa and his army of bootlickers.

 

[Khyber53]

And yeah, I did just praise Gettleman AND Hurney. That's how bad things are now.

 

[CBDellinger]

3 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

And yeah, I did just praise Gettleman AND Hurney. That's how bad things are now.

 

Hurney is by far and away the best GM we have ever had.  Had Matt Rhules slob ass listened to him we'd have traded up and drafted Herbert.

[ProcessBlue2]

In years past, our pro scouts always missed on Free Agents. I think the pro scouts are more effective now, we have had some FA hits the last few years but our rookie scouts seem to miss quite often. 

How much of that is the executive decision by the front office? Idk. I'm not a Tepper apologist but even IF he is the guy pulling the trigger in the draft, you have to wonder who is giving him the scouting reports. To be fair, our scouting dept was going downhill before Tepper too.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

In years past, our pro scouts always missed on Free Agents. I think the pro scouts are more effective now, we have had some FA hits the last few years but our rookie scouts seem to miss quite often. 

How much of that is the executive decision by the front office? Idk. I'm not a Tepper apologist but even IF he is the guy pulling the trigger in the draft, you have to wonder who is giving him the scouting reports. To be fair, our scouting dept was going downhill before Tepper too.

Yeah, there has been past grumblings about our scouting department, I remember.

Has anyone looked at an org. chart to see how long thess guys have been with us?

@Mr. Scot is this something you did a deep dive on in the past by chance?

[PantherChris]

21 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Given our rich history to draft insane busts(TMJ, Mingo, Corral being recent examples) but spanning multiple iterations of General Managers, do you think the core of the problem is our management or our scouting department?

Do we have long tenured scouts that have been here through multiple terrible drafts?

Those guys are all second rounders or later.... how do you make this thread without including the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THE GUY WHOSE MAY JUST BE THE BIGGEST BUST OF ALL TIME....

[Waldo]

Both apparently.

The early picks probably have more fingers on the scales but the later guys aren't hitting either.

Could be worse but it's not good and that needs to change. If they can't have better drafts then they need to clean house.

[45catfan]

WE keep changing GMs, but have largely left our scouting department in tact.  Some turnover this offseason (after the draft) so we shall see.

[CBDellinger]

3 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

I'm not a Tepper apologist but even IF he is the guy pulling the trigger in the draft, you have to wonder who is giving him the scouting reports. To be fair, our scouting dept was going downhill before Tepper too.

Tepper is the guy that thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.  He creates his own data and own reports and thinks it is gospel.  Its what worked form him in his hedge fund investing in distressed assets and he thinks it will work in football too.  But its not.

[45catfan]

You know when this downward spiral started?  When Tepper went all-in on analytics. Let scouts scout and let the nerds play Xbox.

[LinvilleGorge]

Not sure if the scouts suck or they're just not being listened to. You can have the best scouts in the world but it doesn't do any good if the idiots actually making the call disregard them and go with their own gut call.

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Those guys are all second rounders or later.... how do you make this thread without including the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM THE GUY WHOSE MAY JUST BE THE BIGGEST BUST OF ALL TIME....

Well typically our 1st round guys are just slightly to moderately disappointing. It's the 2nd to 4th rounders where we really do our best work and literally get next to nothing out of.