SI Panthers Mock Draft

[jb2288]

Amazing if it actually plays out like this 

[Shocker]

14 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Honest question... why?  

What difference does him running a 4.49 vs a 4.55, in underwear and is largely dependent on your ability to get out of the blocks quickly make compared to watching his tape?

You can watch his tape and see his game speed, you can see him take screens or slants and out run defenders to the corner, you can see him just run away from players once he gets going.  He's 6'5", he's not a quick twitch speedster in those first few steps off the line like a Jefferson, Chase, Nabers.  But once he gets going a bit, he has more than enough speed, you can see it in his film.

If people ONLY want a #1 WR in the mold of one of those guys, then no, you're never going to be satisfied by T-Mac's speed or even game, because he's 6'5", not 6' tall.  He can't do those things that they do, but they can't do the things he can because of his size, he will be able to make catches they wouldn't have a chance on.  Yes we need a speedster WR too, but I think T-Mac as the #1 and finding that elite speed in a small slot WR is the better path. 

I think he runs sub 4.5 because I've seen his game speed, but with his size if he's slow getting out of the crouch and first few steps, so maybe not.  It's why I've never understood people looking at the 40 time so seriously for the draft, there is nothing about it that directly translates to the field unless you're main feature is being that go-route specialist.

I want him running in the 4.4s to dispel some of these concerns about lack of separation 

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, Shocker said:

I want him running in the 4.4s to dispel some of these concerns about lack of separation 

Straight line running speed in a 40 has no bearing on route separation other than straight go routes, and even then, running a 40 isn't running in football games in a pads.

AND... if THAT is your concern with T-Mac, then you might as well take him off your draft board, because he's not a go-route guy that is going to run past and separate from the DB.  

The deep ball is his specialty, but not because he out runs the DB's, it's because he high points the ball and can make those catches over defenders before they even have a chance to break it up.

[tukafan21]

6 hours ago, Tr3ach said:

I wasn't a fan of XL when we drafted him.  The problem as far as if they're both good then trade one is im not sure either can look good paired up as the #1 and #2 wr.  They don't compliment each other at all and have basically the same strengths and weaknesses albeit Tmac is a better prospect.  A lot of my opinion is based on my preferences and wanting to prioritizing route running, short area quickness and body control, and watching us instead draft big guys who don't run shuttles or cones and have a fast 40 for literally years in a row.

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched nearly enough of T-Mac other than a few short highlight clips to know his game.

The only thing he doesn't have is the short area quickness in the way that you're looking for, as you seem to want that Jefferson/Chase type of WR, which sure, he's not that.

But him and XL are nothing alike, let alone having the same strengths and weaknesses.  In particular, T-Mac's #1 strength is LITERALLY XL's #1 weakness, their hands.  T-Mac has vice grips for hands, catches darn near everything, and does it all with hands catches, the opposite of XL.  

Beyond that, you mention prioritizing route running, of which, T-Mac already runs a complete NFL route tree at a high level.  Yes, he needs to work on his get off the line at the snap and get a little crisper on some of his cuts to create separation, but again, all players need to work on something, that's just what his is.  It doesn't change that he is already a great route runner, there are just some small elements of it that he can improve on.

Even then, it's like I've been saying, the trade off of not having that true elite separation like the smaller WR's get, is how good he is at using his body to keep the DB's from being able to break up passes and just making contested catches in general.  You lose a little bit of separation, but his 6'5" body gives him advantages that the smaller WRs just don't have.

Again, your post here insinuates that T-Mac is a slow, plodding big WR who isn't a proficient route runner, which couldn't be further from the truth.  I have no issue with people wanting other players over T-Mac, or just not wanting him at all.  But they need to be logical reasons, not made up ones in your head because you don't actually know the player and his abilities.

Edited January 15 by tukafan21

[Loyalty4Life]

I don't give a poo where a player was drafted.  Pretend we drafted Coker in the first round and XL as an UDFA if it helps you sleep at night.

I like T-Mac but I've only watched a few games and some highlights. 

Great breakdown Tukafan21.  Seems like you know what you're talking about regarding T-Mac.  Getting me excited about the potential.

 

Edited January 15 by Loyalty4Life

[Tr3ach]

4 hours ago, Shocker said:

I want him running in the 4.4s to dispel some of these concerns about lack of separation 

He's not going to run in the 4.4s.  From what I've seen I'm not sure he will run in the 4.5s

[tukafan21]

2 hours ago, Loyalty4Life said:

I don't give a poo where a player was drafted.  Pretend we drafted Coker in the first round and XL as an UDFA if it helps you sleep at night.

I like T-Mac but I've only watched a few games and some highlights. 

Great breakdown Tukafan21.  Seems like you know what you're talking about regarding T-Mac.  Getting me excited about the potential.

 

Said this last night in the Bryce thread, but he's also the perfect pairing for what Bryce does well (and doesn't).

The biggest negative people on here have towards him is his top end speed.  Well, Bryce doesn't have the arm to take advantage of that type of player anyways, Bryce doesn't have the "throw the ball past the defense and let a Tryeek type run it down" type of arm.

Bryce has the "heave it 50-60 yards for a jump ball" type of arm, which again, is PERFECT for what T-Mac does best, and that's make contested catches down the field by high pointing the ball before the defender can break it up.

What Bryce also does well have is having the ability to put touch on the ball to place it where he wants, which is a perfect fit for T-Mac and his size.  

Bryce would be great at placing the ball high and towards the sideline where no defender is going to have a chance at making a play on the ball given T-Mac's height and catch radius.  Combine it with his vice grip hands and it's a great fit with the two of them.

Bryce also doesn't have the rifle for an arm that will zip a ball into a tight window and get to the WR before a DB can get in there to challenge the play.  Which again, is exactly what T-Mac is great at, he's so good at making catches in traffic while he's getting hit, because he has that big body and catches the ball with his hands out away from his body and the defender's contact.

People get too hung up on what T-Mac doesn't have in the speed and quick twitch type of game that the Jefferson and Chase type of WRs have.  They don't look enough at what he excels at and how it brings something else to the table that 99% of WR's just can't because they don't have the height and subsequent catch radius that T-Mac has.

T-Mac is a faster Mike Evans with a slightly less physicality to his game because Evans is a good 20 lbs bigger.  It's why I always compared him to AJ Green, that's who's game I've always seen when watching T-Mac.

Edited January 16 by tukafan21

[jfra78]

21 hours ago, Shocker said:

I want to see TMac run in the 4.4s before I spend 8 on him,

4.6 at best

[tukafan21]

32 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

He's not going to run in the 4.4s.  From what I've seen I'm not sure he will run in the 4.5s

 

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

4.6 at best

LOLOLOL

I will make any bet that anyone wants that he runs 4.59 or under.

Anyone who actually thinks he's running a 4.6 or higher has clearly never watched him play, that's absolute nonsense.

[ImfromClayton]

I think we are a great candidate to trade down. I know we have 9 picks, but if we could somehow move back to the middle, or back of the first round and get another earlier 2nd round pick, I think that's the way to go. 

We need more humans on our roster that can compete at an NFL level on the defensive side of the ball. We can address some of that in free agency, but not all. 

I'd definitely consider a move back to 10-14, if it involved an early 2nd, and from there, I wouldn't totally be opposed to a move back to the late first, pending compensation. 

This draft is deep at some of our positions of need, and I think we'd be wise to take advantage of that. 

 

Of course, this is all mute if one of your "dudes" is there when you pick at 8.  Definitely no need to trade until draft day. 

[Shocker]

21 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Straight line running speed in a 40 has no bearing on route separation other than straight go routes, and even then, running a 40 isn't running in football games in a pads.

AND... if THAT is your concern with T-Mac, then you might as well take him off your draft board, because he's not a go-route guy that is going to run past and separate from the DB.  

The deep ball is his specialty, but not because he out runs the DB's, it's because he high points the ball and can make those catches over defenders before they even have a chance to break it up.

Dude no offense but speed absolutely matters.  You saying this seriously dents your credibility with something with which you clearly think you are some sort of expert.

I have been researching and following the draft since the Panthers first season.

You aren’t the only one on the forum that knows the draft well.  Food for thought 

Edited January 16 by Shocker

[Navy_football]

2 hours ago, ImfromClayton said:

I think we are a great candidate to trade down. I know we have 9 picks, but if we could somehow move back to the middle, or back of the first round and get another earlier 2nd round pick, I think that's the way to go. 

We need more humans on our roster that can compete at an NFL level on the defensive side of the ball. We can address some of that in free agency, but not all. 

I'd definitely consider a move back to 10-14, if it involved an early 2nd, and from there, I wouldn't totally be opposed to a move back to the late first, pending compensation. 

This draft is deep at some of our positions of need, and I think we'd be wise to take advantage of that. 

 

Of course, this is all mute if one of your "dudes" is there when you pick at 8.  Definitely no need to trade until draft day. 

Exactly. Agree with all. 

[jfra78]

18 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

 

LOLOLOL

I will make any bet that anyone wants that he runs 4.59 or under.

Anyone who actually thinks he's running a 4.6 or higher has clearly never watched him play, that's absolute nonsense.

He's slow and even if he runs a 4.59 he doesn't play at that speed.  We need speed at reciever plain and simple.  Moose ran a 4.53 and he looks much slower than him

[Navy_football]

25 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He's slow and even if he runs a 4.59 he doesn't play at that speed.  We need speed at reciever plain and simple.  Moose ran a 4.53 and he looks much slower than him

I think they need a guy that's more quick than fast. Either way, Tet doesn't really fit the bill. Would he improve this pedestrian receiving corps. Absolutely. But he wouldn't be my first choice.