Can we all admit it now?

[mrcompletely11]

13 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Bruh?

Is Sam Darnold not serviceable?  Did he not have a great year last year with the Vikings?  He just went 22-33 for 295 yards with 2 TD and 2 picks in a win over the Steelers.  How is this wrong?

Combined two-year totals which includes Drew's 8-8 record in his first year:
Drew Brees
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,392 yards
Touchdowns: 28
Interceptions: 31
Passer Rating: 67.5

Bryce Young
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,280 yards
Touchdowns: 26
Interceptions: 19
Passer Rating: 77.95

This even forces me to include Bryce horrible first year and it's still comparable.

What am I missing now?  Does the climate out west for Drew make a difference when compared to east coast weather in comparison?  There is never going to be an exact match.  It's why I shared so many.

What is so freakin difficult is seeing that some NFL QB's have had similar starts to their career as Bryce, including getting benched or traded but still went on to be serviceable, much less a star?  That is literally all I'm saying here which is  direct response to George's "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star."

The fact that you can't concede even small points is very telling.  What I'm saying here isn't even controversial.  

I feel like I'm in the football version of Idiocracy.

now do ryan leaf, jamarcus russell, josh rosen, tim couch, joey harrington........I could go on but hopefully you get the point, cherry picking some anomalies to prop up young is just LOL funny

 

and like I said he has run out of time for this franchise.  What do you see as a realistic scenario for Bryce and the panthers?  Honest question

Edited 2 hours ago by mrcompletely11

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Bruh?

Is Sam Darnold not serviceable?  Did he not have a great year last year with the Vikings?  He just went 22-33 for 295 yards with 2 TD and 2 picks in a win over the Steelers.  How is this wrong?

Combined two-year totals which includes Drew's 8-8 record in his first year:
Drew Brees
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,392 yards
Touchdowns: 28
Interceptions: 31
Passer Rating: 67.5

Bryce Young
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,280 yards
Touchdowns: 26
Interceptions: 19
Passer Rating: 77.95

This even forces me to include Bryce horrible first year and it's still comparable.

What am I missing now?  Does the climate out west for Drew make a difference when compared to east coast weather in comparison?  There is never going to be an exact match.  It's why I shared so many.

What is so freakin difficult is seeing that some NFL QB's have had similar starts to their career as Bryce, including getting benched or traded but still went on to be serviceable, much less a star?  That is literally all I'm saying here which is  direct response to George's "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star."

The fact that you can't concede even small points is very telling.  What I'm saying here isn't even controversial.  

I feel like I'm in the football version of Idiocracy.

 Brees went 8-8 as a starter year 1.  THAT alone kills Brees from the convo.   Because that’s not being horrible for a the stretch Bryce has been.  Thats a solid first year as a starter. 

and that makes his sophomore slump season bearable because you have already seen solid play (which Bryce doesn’t have)

year 3 he wins 11 games. 

Brees represents a very normal pattern.  Solid first year.  Sophomore slump.  Breakout. 

 

 

[Shotgun]

12 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Bruh?

Is Sam Darnold not serviceable?  Did he not have a great year last year with the Vikings?  He just went 22-33 for 295 yards with 2 TD and 2 picks in a win over the Steelers.  How is this wrong?

Combined two-year totals which includes Drew's 8-8 record in his first year:
Drew Brees
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,392 yards
Touchdowns: 28
Interceptions: 31
Passer Rating: 67.5

Bryce Young
Record: 10-17
Passing: 5,280 yards
Touchdowns: 26
Interceptions: 19
Passer Rating: 77.95

This even forces me to include Bryce horrible first year and it's still comparable.

What am I missing now?  Does the climate out west for Drew make a difference when compared to east coast weather in comparison?  There is never going to be an exact match.  It's why I shared so many.

What is so freakin difficult is seeing that some NFL QB's have had similar starts to their career as Bryce, including getting benched or traded but still went on to be serviceable, much less a star?  That is literally all I'm saying here which is  direct response to George's "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star."

The fact that you can't concede even small points is very telling.  What I'm saying here isn't even controversial.  

I feel like I'm in the football version of Idiocracy.

Drew Brees didn't need his backup to come in to attempt a Hail Mary. 

[carpanfan96]

Brees had a pro bowl year in year 3. Phillip Rivers was drafted anyways and Brees went off for two more years before his shoulder was completely torn up in the last game of the 2006 season. 

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

 Brees went 8-8 as a starter year 1.  THAT alone kills Brees from the convo.   Because that’s not being horrible for a the stretch Bryce has been.  Thats a solid first year as a starter. 

 

 

 

That's also in an era when DBs could press for 10 yards, Qbs could be hit, QBs could have players land on them, incidental contact could be made with the head etc. You can't compare bryce to players like this.

What you can do is say who's done less over their first 30 starts and had more resources dedicated to them and at that point you're looking at like Joey Harrington. 

At least with Joey there weren't morons in the fan base falling over themselves to compare him to players from the first year of the NFL merger. 

Edited 2 hours ago by electro's horse

[electro's horse]

did you get this list of QBs from chatgpt? You're being laughed at on other parts of the internet btw

lmao that's a list, but for fun since I like football history:

Sam Darnold: 13-25 in his three Jets years, including two under Adam Gase. Do I need to say more?

Geno Smith: 11-18 in two seasons, lost starting job his third year when a preseason jaw injury opened the door to FitzMagic.

Jake Plummer: 15-21 in his first three seasons, which doesn't include a playoff win over Dallas, he struggled badly when they let Larry Centers go after his second season without a replacement (Remember when fullbacks were centerpieces of offenses? That was cool).

Jim Plunkett: 14-28 in three (14-game) seasons, during the NFL's dead ball era for a bad team in a tough division.

Doug Williams: 19-22-1 in his first three seasons, including a 10-6 second year where they went to the NFC Championship game, after taking over a team that had been 2-26 the prior two years. He had a great defense and was content with 40% completion because he was chucking bombs.

Tommy Maddox: 0-4 as a rookie in 1992, then never started again until 2002 when he had his resurgence with Pittsburgh. Maddox entered the draft after his sophomore season when that was extremely uncommon because Dan Reeves thought he might be the replacement for John Elway, then when Reeves got fired, Maddox never saw the field. He'd bounce around but as mentioned, basically barely saw the field after his rookie year, having just 164 attempts in his pre-XFL stints with Denver, the LA Rams, Giants, and Falcons (The latter two as basically a practice squad guy when Reeves was the head coach in both cities).

Steve Young: 5-17 in his first three seasons, but those first two years were with Tampa during the middle of all their double digit loss seasons when that franchise was basically at its nadir. Like, yeah, he was bad with them, who wasn't? Everyone knew he had a ton talent from college and his time in the USFL. He went 2-1 in his third year, his first as Joe Montana's backup.

Drew Brees: 10-17 in three seasons, which includes him not starting a game as a rookie, an 8-8 second year when he finally did start, then 2-9 and getting benched for Doug Flutie his third year. San Diego Brees was not quite the same as New Orleans Brees.

Rich Gannon: He didn't start a game his first three seasons, then went 19-16 over the 1990-1992 seasons when he was the Vikings main starter. Those Minnesota teams were feeling the effects of the Herschel Walker trade and bad coaching.

Alex Smith: Already mentioned, but 11-19 in his first three seasons, with three different OCs running different systems and the head coach interfering as well.

Vinny Testaverde: 10-23 in three years, replacing Steve Young, and throwing an absurd 63 INTs (With 35 alone in his second season!). Again, Tampa was horrible and Vinny didn't play great but also had little around him in those years, plus bad coaching.

Terry Bradshaw: 19-16 in three years, notably going 11-3 his third year and making it to the AFC Championship. His numbers were not good at all, but this was 1970-1972 playing for a defense/run first team.

Now, 30 starts doesn't exactly work out to three seasons, but the only two with as nearly an awful win-loss rate as Bryce were Maddox and Steve Young. Bryce would need to win 4 games just to get to double digit wins (Which would tie Brees and Vinny).

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

That's also in an era when DBs could press for 10 yards, Qbs could be hit, QBs could have players land on them, incidental contact could be made with the head etc. You can't compare bryce to players like this.

What you can do is say who's done less over their first 30 starts and had more resources dedicated to them and at that point you're looking at like Joey Harrington. 

At least with Joey there weren't morons in the fan base falling over themselves to compare him to players from the first year of the NFL merger. 

Harrington is a nice example.  We already have matched  the 2 first round WRs.   Bryce stans would probably want us to make it 3 in a row like the Lions and give Bryce one more shot like Harrington.  I sort of forgot about how nuts the Lions went there 

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Harrington is a nice example.  We already have matched  the 2 first round WRs.   Bryce stans would probably want us to make it 3 in a row like the Lions and give Bryce one more shot like Harrington.  I sort of forgot about how nuts the Lions went there 

id be fine with us drafting calvin johnson

[raleigh-panther]

22 hours ago, MRenshaw said:

It's ironic that the Panthers have a mouse playing QB.

And Minnie Mouse at that

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

id be fine with us drafting calvin johnson

lol.  Just had to check.  Megatron wasn’t even the 3 peat of first round WRs.  That came after they finally moved on from Harrington.  Megatron was the 4th WR in 5 years  Talk about insanity.   

[Loyalty4Life]

49 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

did you get this list of QBs from chatgpt? You're being laughed at on other parts of the internet btw

lmao that's a list, but for fun since I like football history:

Sam Darnold: 13-25 in his three Jets years, including two under Adam Gase. Do I need to say more?

Geno Smith: 11-18 in two seasons, lost starting job his third year when a preseason jaw injury opened the door to FitzMagic.

Jake Plummer: 15-21 in his first three seasons, which doesn't include a playoff win over Dallas, he struggled badly when they let Larry Centers go after his second season without a replacement (Remember when fullbacks were centerpieces of offenses? That was cool).

Jim Plunkett: 14-28 in three (14-game) seasons, during the NFL's dead ball era for a bad team in a tough division.

Doug Williams: 19-22-1 in his first three seasons, including a 10-6 second year where they went to the NFC Championship game, after taking over a team that had been 2-26 the prior two years. He had a great defense and was content with 40% completion because he was chucking bombs.

Tommy Maddox: 0-4 as a rookie in 1992, then never started again until 2002 when he had his resurgence with Pittsburgh. Maddox entered the draft after his sophomore season when that was extremely uncommon because Dan Reeves thought he might be the replacement for John Elway, then when Reeves got fired, Maddox never saw the field. He'd bounce around but as mentioned, basically barely saw the field after his rookie year, having just 164 attempts in his pre-XFL stints with Denver, the LA Rams, Giants, and Falcons (The latter two as basically a practice squad guy when Reeves was the head coach in both cities).

Steve Young: 5-17 in his first three seasons, but those first two years were with Tampa during the middle of all their double digit loss seasons when that franchise was basically at its nadir. Like, yeah, he was bad with them, who wasn't? Everyone knew he had a ton talent from college and his time in the USFL. He went 2-1 in his third year, his first as Joe Montana's backup.

Drew Brees: 10-17 in three seasons, which includes him not starting a game as a rookie, an 8-8 second year when he finally did start, then 2-9 and getting benched for Doug Flutie his third year. San Diego Brees was not quite the same as New Orleans Brees.

Rich Gannon: He didn't start a game his first three seasons, then went 19-16 over the 1990-1992 seasons when he was the Vikings main starter. Those Minnesota teams were feeling the effects of the Herschel Walker trade and bad coaching.

Alex Smith: Already mentioned, but 11-19 in his first three seasons, with three different OCs running different systems and the head coach interfering as well.

Vinny Testaverde: 10-23 in three years, replacing Steve Young, and throwing an absurd 63 INTs (With 35 alone in his second season!). Again, Tampa was horrible and Vinny didn't play great but also had little around him in those years, plus bad coaching.

Terry Bradshaw: 19-16 in three years, notably going 11-3 his third year and making it to the AFC Championship. His numbers were not good at all, but this was 1970-1972 playing for a defense/run first team.

Now, 30 starts doesn't exactly work out to three seasons, but the only two with as nearly an awful win-loss rate as Bryce were Maddox and Steve Young. Bryce would need to win 4 games just to get to double digit wins (Which would tie Brees and Vinny).

Thank you for literally proving my point in so much detail.  Which of those QB's you listed did not go on to be serviceable?

Yes, there are a ton of variables that make comparisons less valuable in a lot of way but the whole point is can a pro QB overcome a bad or horrible start.  I'm sorry if you think 3 games more in his first year and 3 less in his 2nd somehow makes the Brees comparison not relevant.  That is blantently disingenuous and makes having real discussions a pain the butt.  We're comparing "similar" bad situations and bad QB play early in a players career.

Some of the stats, like games won are lower for Bryce but still comparable.  Other stats like interceptions are in Bryce's favor, ie 19 for Bryce over 2 years and 31 for Brees.  

Maybe we are not answering the same question.

George stated "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star."

I could have just said, Maddox and Young and proven his statement wasn't factual.  It's the over the top pearl clutching and hyperbolic statements that make my eye twitch.  


 
 

[electro's horse]

You’re calling players “serviceable” which is a meaningless subjective descriptor then backing that up with stats across vastly different eras of football without any context. 

Youre being disingenuous and annoying. 

[Dragoon11]

If Bryce had led them down the field on that GOLDEN opportunity drive and got the TD, then I might hold off on admitting. That was his time to really shine and he just did not look like that guy we saw when he was at Alabama. He just looks intimidated out there. Until he can overcome the nerves of big moments I'm afraid no one will be convinced. At some point he has to show he can perform during the moments it counts the most. And honestly, just overall for 4 quarters 

Edited 30 minutes ago by Dragoon11

[Panthera onca]

11 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Thank you for literally proving my point in so much detail.  Which of those QB's you listed did not go on to be serviceable?

Yes, there are a ton of variables that make comparisons less valuable in a lot of way but the whole point is can a pro QB overcome a bad or horrible start.  I'm sorry if you think 3 games more in his first year and 3 less in his 2nd somehow makes the Brees comparison not relevant.  That is blantently disingenuous and makes having real discussions a pain the butt.  We're comparing "similar" bad situations and bad QB play early in a players career.

Some of the stats, like games won are lower for Bryce but still comparable.  Other stats like interceptions are in Bryce's favor, ie 19 for Bryce over 2 years and 31 for Brees.  

Maybe we are not answering the same question.

George stated "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star."

I could have just said, Maddox and Young and proven his statement wasn't factual.  It's the over the top pearl clutching and hyperbolic statements that make my eye twitch.  


 
 

My man, give it up already. No amount of Bryce fluffing will make him a good QB. Its over.