Be careful what you wish for

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, amcoolio said:

I think multiple things can be true.

1. Panthers need to move on from Bryce, who isn't good enough.

2. Bryce will almost assuredly go somewhere else and be way better, we will get dragged through the media, but that's just the way things are.

3. The Panthers will draft a QB who will be pretty bad to average, and we will repeat the process all over again and look for another QB in 4 years. This is just who we are as a franchise.

This is why you build for defense not offense, and hope you get lucky with a Jake or Cam type that can give you just enough on offense

I wish Bryce the best, as a guy that said he was the best QB in that draft, but I don't really think he will be much better elsewhere. Well, let me clarify, not better enough to ever be a regular NFL starting QB.

[ncsfinest21]

I think its a mix of both. Bryce being too small and offense is too vanilla. Plays arent creative enough. Most are slants, fades and runs. But even Baker and Sam had to deal with vanilla offense and looked horrid. Thats why I say it's a mix of both.

[strato]

On the subject of Reich and him being no good as a coach, because he wouldn’t change everything he did to accommodate Young. He wanted to sit Young. He knew what Young was. 
But to the point, was Andrew Luck a good QB under Reich in Indy? Most people don’t hesitate to say yes. Well, Luck thought enough of his coaching to bring him to Stanford.  There is a bona fide NFL QB that seems to dispute the painting of Reich as a incompetent and the reason for Young’s shortcomings. 

Yes he got fired. It appears as if Tepper and Fitterer forced a QB he did not want on him and poisoned the well right from the start. I don’t blame Reich one bit for being pissed either. 
And I wasn’t a Reich guy I wanted Wilks. I accepted the Reich hire but never lobbied for him.  Just saying he is being dogged here unfairly. 

 

[cranky]

6 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

For like the 100th time on here, there are only 3 options after this season for Bryce.

1. Trade him

2. Extend him

3. Pick up the 5th

 

what would you recommend the team doing?  Honest question. 

Sorry I missed this but depending on how the year plays out, I would say extend him BUT it would have to be on terms aligned with his play.

[onmyown]

While I wanted Stroud I was ok with the Young pick. I didn’t judge. Not even his first year. No knee jerk reactions. Allowed time to watch him learn.

It’s into year three and it’s time. He sucks. It’s true this franchise sucks too obviously with other players AND coaches doing much better after leaving. 

Unfortunately it’s a severely dysfunctional franchise and the only thing that will save it is a true generational talent at QB that this inept FO actually lucks into picking or high priced elite vet if that is even possible who would come here over other places or Tepper selling or keeling over. Things that are just unlikely to happen.

 

The Panthers are literally the new age Browns.

Edited 12 hours ago by onmyown

[cranky]

5 minutes ago, strato said:

On the subject of Reich and him being no good as a coach, because he wouldn’t change everything he did to accommodate Young. He wanted to sit Young. He knew what Young was. 
But to the point, was Andrew Luck a good QB under Reich in Indy? Most people don’t hesitate to say yes. Well, Luck thought enough of his coaching to bring him to Stanford.  There is a bona fide NFL QB that seems to dispute the painting of Reich as a incompetent and the reason for Young’s shortcomings. 

Yes he got fired. It appears as if Tepper and Fitterer forced a QB he did not want on him and poisoned the well right from the start. I don’t blame Reich one bit for being pissed either. 
And I wasn’t a Reich guy I wanted Wilks. I accepted the Reich hire but never lobbied for him.  Just saying he is being dogged here unfairly. 

 

Luck was a good QB before Reich got there. If you look at his stats, they are pretty much the same as the previous year under Pagano so I wouldn't say his success was because of Reich. In the years following Luck retiring, Reich went through 4 different QB while havine a 30-29 record I believe. 

For what it's worth, I also like Wilks and felt he earned the opportunity to be the HC. My guess is he was too head strong for Tepper.

[TD alt]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is definitely not necessarily true. There were ample instances throughout NFL history of young QB's playing early. You might be thinking of college football where that was definitely not a thing.

I would push back on the "learning" part. It isn't as if there are gobs of reclaimation projects littering the NFL. Most of those guys either end up as career backups or flame out quickly. 

IMO, it's more that they were not NFL players in the first place. That has literally been a thing as long as the NFL/NFL Draft existed.

Dude, there are plenty of instances of QBs sitting on the bench before starting. 

Joe Montana, Ken Stabler, Joe Theisman, Tom Brady, A-Rod, Pat Mahomes, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Jordan Love, Kurt Warner and even a few others didn't come out the gate as the starter, and those that did arguably sucked. Some, like Jim Kelly and Bobby Hebert (who was solid, not great) played for the USFL before earning opportunities in the NFL. Warner played in NFL Europe, but still didn't start in the NFL right away.

[strato]

1 hour ago, cranky said:

Luck was a good QB before Reich got there. If you look at his stats, they are pretty much the same as the previous year under Pagano so I wouldn't say his success was because of Reich. In the years following Luck retiring, Reich went through 4 different QB while havine a 30-29 record I believe. 

For what it's worth, I also like Wilks and felt he earned the opportunity to be the HC. My guess is he was too head strong for Tepper.

okay I buried the lead with this at the end but it needs to be up front, then we have the rebuttal I started out with. 
 

A designated Hail Mary QB, and designated QB sneaker… that is some unheard of stuff. I would be willing to bet a large sum (relatively) that only one player in the history of the league has required those accommodations.

Cool. I think my point is he did not ruin Luck, Luck vouched for him by hiring him at Stanford.
And he did not negatively impact Young. The NFL negatively impacted him because he doesn’t have an NFL game. It was just… Bryce, meet reality. This is the NFL not Alabama. He is still trying to get his game up to snuff and we are in year three. Also the resources used on him after he got to the NFL? We had a bottom 5 worst defense in history basically (17 game stats vs the old 16 game stats make it look worse), because he needed so much help. . 
 

[ProcessBlue2]

5 hours ago, cranky said:

2) So you are saying it was the coaching that lead to both his failure and success? Hummmmm......

Yes. Rhule wouldn’t run the ball and defenders were taking his head off every play. When Rhule was fired the offense changed overnight with McAdoo and the run took a bunch of pressure off Darnold.

However, Darnold is very physically gifted and has everything you want from a QB unlike ours.

Darnolds problem has always been decision making.

Edited 10 hours ago by ProcessBlue2

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, TD alt said:

Dude, there are plenty of instances of QBs sitting on the bench before starting. 

Joe Montana, Ken Stabler, Joe Theisman, Tom Brady, A-Rod, Pat Mahomes, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Jordan Love, Kurt Warner and even a few others didn't come out the gate as the starter, and those that did arguably sucked. Some, like Jim Kelly and Bobby Hebert (who was solid, not great) played for the USFL before earning opportunities in the NFL. Warner played in NFL Europe, but still didn't start in the NFL right away.

You are literally naming almost entirely instances where they are sitting behind a well established if not star player that was already on the team.

That's a different scenario entirely. 

Listen, if you want to make all the mental gymnastics for excuses, have at it. I think the facts are clear, Bryce Young is not an NFL caliber player. Furthermore, no amount of pine time nor change of scenery is likely to change that. 

[TD alt]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

You are literally naming almost entirely instances where they are sitting behind a well established if not star player that was already on the team.

That's a different scenario entirely. 

Listen, if you want to make all the mental gymnastics for excuses, have at it. I think the facts are clear, Bryce Young is not an NFL caliber player. Furthermore, no amount of pine time nor change of scenery is likely to change that. 

Like that matters. That's the first thing. I suggested that it's probably better to let a QB sit and learn, and that's what I meant.

Secondly, in what planet am I making excuses, my friend, or engaging in any mental gymnastics in Bryce Young's defense? As I have said, I don't care if he turns into Mighty Mouse, it's time for him to go. In my opinion, he's too short to be a successful QB in the NFL. I have seen enough. I'd rather trade him and take my chances with Hooker, at least he's more of a prototypical size and can actually see where and why he's throwing the ball.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, TD alt said:

Like that matters. That's the first thing. I suggested that it's probably better to let a QB sit and learn, and that's what I meant.

Secondly, in what planet am I making excuses, my friend, or engaging in any mental gymnastics in Bryce Young's defense? As I have said, I don't care if he turns into Mighty Mouse, it's time for him to go. In my opinion, he's too short to be a successful QB in the NFL. I have seen enough. I'd rather trade him and take my chances with Hooker, at least he's more of a prototypical size and can actually see where and why he's throwing the ball.

Well, Hooker was a guy that was drafted in the 3rd round pick sitting behind a well established starter yet Detroit somehow saw enough to let him go after two offseasons. 

Where does that fit into your ideal situation?

[Panthero]

The guy just isnt getting it done. All this high level jousting and parsing this stat or that doesn't matter. Hes been cheeks. Period. Even his good stretch is not impressive. 

[hepcat]

10 hours ago, cranky said:

Luck was a good QB before Reich got there. If you look at his stats, they are pretty much the same as the previous year under Pagano so I wouldn't say his success was because of Reich. In the years following Luck retiring, Reich went through 4 different QB while havine a 30-29 record I believe. 

For what it's worth, I also like Wilks and felt he earned the opportunity to be the HC. My guess is he was too head strong for Tepper.

He commanded too much respect from the players. They played too hard for Steve. Only time I’ve ever seen the team come out and play hard for 4 quarters was in some of the games Wilks coached.