Chicken or the Egg

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, NAS said:

But is he asked to abandon reads after 2.7 seconds and not wait for routes to develop due to protection and earlier concerns with fumbles? 

Probably. I mean, when Bryce gets hit there's a decent chance he fumbles. He probably has the highest hit:fumble ratio in the league if someone tracks that metric.

[electro's horse]

They drafted a deep ball wide receiver in the first round.

kinda answers that question. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, NAS said:

If I remember it was Greg Cossell who said that before the Bills game insinuating they would play better with Dalton lol

I mean, Dalton is incredibly washed up at this point. We did play differently with Dalton in the past. Dalton has just regressed to Bryce level as a passer except with 40 year old legs 

[electro's horse]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Probably. I mean, when Bryce gets hit there's a decent chance he fumbles. He probably has the highest hit:fumble ratio in the league if someone tracks that metric.

Two weeks ago I looked and he was at 21 fumbled since 2023.

 Baker had the most at 23, but that’s with far more games and attempts obviously.

fumbles per attempting Bryce by a mile. 

[Paa Langfart]

54 minutes ago, NAS said:

protecting the beat up OL

Now youre blaming the o line for having to game plan around a guy with a weak arm and no vision ?

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, NAS said:

If I remember it was Greg Cossell who said that before the Bills game insinuating they would play better with Dalton lol

They probably would have if DC had used his brain and been less worried about offending Chuba. Rico was ripping off runs at 8 yards a pop. Use him to wear that rested defense down, then use Dalton. But instead it was Chuba for 2 over and over. It wasn’t difficult to do, DC just refused to use some common sense. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I mean, Dalton is incredibly washed up at this point. We did play differently with Dalton in the past. Dalton has just regressed to Bryce level as a passer except with 40 year old legs 

I kept waiting for him to explode into a cloud of dust when he got hit.

[Mage]

The main issue is Bryce Young.  Not the only issue, but certainly the one who has played the biggest role in our lack of a vertical pass game.

What is frustrating is that while I don't think he will ever be an Allen or Mahomes in that department, obviously, he is more capable than what he's shown (which isn't saying a whole lot).  But he refuses to play like someone who trusts themselves.  While he is better than he was as a rookie, the best he's ever looked IMO was the second half of last year.  And I would say it all the time in the GameDay Threads - he had a confidence to him, a freedom to his play-style, that was so clearly playing a role in his improved play.

But this year he is back to playing so rigid.  Case in point: how has he not eclipsed 10 rushing yards since Week 1?  He averaged 26 rushing yards over his last 8 games last year.  That might not seem like a lot, but it matters and it is reflective to how freely he was willing to play last year.  It is even more obvious when you see it in person.  He doesn't trust his instincts.

No doubt there are physical limitations at play, but I think that is one thing he really lacks.  Trust in himself.

[Jon Snow]

If I had to make a guess I would say that the wind had more to do with throwing too much last Sunday. It cost both qb's with turnovers and  Canales was smart enough and lucky enough to have a run game to lean on. Now in games prior to that I cannot say.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

The main issue is Bryce Young.  Not the only issue, but certainly the one who has played the biggest role in our lack of a vertical pass game.

What is frustrating is that while I don't think he will ever be an Allen or Mahomes in that department, obviously, he is more capable than what he's shown (which isn't saying a whole lot).  But he refuses to play like someone who trusts themselves.  While he is better than he was as a rookie, the best he's ever looked IMO was the second half of last year.  And I would say it all the time in the GameDay Threads - he had a confidence to him, a freedom to his play-style, that was so clearly playing a role in his improved play.

But this year he is back to playing so rigid.  Case in point: how has he not eclipsed 10 rushing yards since Week 1?  He averaged 26 rushing yards over his last 8 games last year.  That might not seem like a lot, but it matters and it is reflective to how freely he was willing to play last year.  It is even more obvious when you see it in person.  He doesn't trust his instincts.

No doubt there are physical limitations at play, but I think that is one thing he really lacks.  Trust in himself.

I mean, he'd have to be delusional to still have a high degree of confidence in his abilities on an NFL field. When he tried to make a confident downfield throw this week it ended in a god awful throw that was easily picked. He can take shots downfield but they have to be the perfect opportunities. If the pocket is muddy at all he can't go downfield. Just don't even try.

[Paa Langfart]

11 minutes ago, NAS said:

If I remember it was Greg Cossell who said that before the Bills game insinuating they would play better with Dalton lol

You mean broken thumb and all ?

[Mage]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I mean, he'd have to be delusional to still have a high degree of confidence in his abilities on an NFL field. 

I mean, he's a professional athlete.  What you think as a fan vs what he should think as a player are completely different.  Being bad doesn't mean you should lack confidence in yourself, and really that is true in all forms of life.  Do everything you want to do with confidence.

Justin Fields sucks, but does he ever play like someone who doesn't believe in his own abilities?  

Obviously you need more than confidence to be a high-level NFL player, and Bryce will never be that.  But he could still create 2-3 extra plays a game if he allowed himself to play more "free" like he did in the second half of last season.  The fact he refuses to use his legs to pick up yards nowadays hurts this team.  Simple things like that would go a long way for us, even if not for him.

Edited 2 hours ago by Mage

[jfra78]

The egg is a chicken

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mage said:

I mean, he's a professional athlete.  What you think as a fan vs what he should think as a player are completely different.  Being bad doesn't mean you should lack confidence in yourself, and really that is true in all forms of life.  Do everything you want to do with confidence.

Justin Fields sucks, but does he ever play like someone who doesn't believe in his own abilities?  

Obviously you need more than confidence to be a high-level NFL player, and Bryce will never be that.  But he could still create 2-3 extra plays a game if he allowed himself to play more "free" like he did in the second half of last season.  The fact he refuses to use his legs to pick up yards nowadays hurts this team.  Simple things like that would go a long way for us, even if not for him.

He's still human. When you go out and fail over and over again it's going to impact you. And yeah, I absolutely think Fields looks like (and talks) like a guy who is really struggling with his confidence as a player and for good reason.