J Person article on Canales and game plan and Rico

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

For a completely washed Dalton with a busted thumb on his throwing hand? Morgan fugged Dave.  Dave might suck.  But he is fugged at the QB spot from the jump this year with nowhere to go.  So going to Dalton doesn't do anything but set Dave up to look bad. 

I mean, Hubbard should of started over Rico to start the season.  I get the switch wasn't flawless but I sort of get that being a little muddy.  Hubbard is probably the actual leader on that O.  That's a tough pull.  

I think Canales is in a really tough spot.  We fug it all up.  The right path was moving on from Bryce after 2 weeks into the Canales era.  They almost had it right.   We should of never gone into this season w/ Bryce it was always going to be a pointless mess.   

I think Dave is in a can't win situation.   Playing to win has a lot of bad in the big picture.  Not hiding Bryce is bad.   He has no real option to bench Bryce.  

 

Canales isn't in a tough spot that he didn't choose and he consistently makes it tougher on himself. His problems are almost all his own doing. 

If he "can't" bench Bryce then he is an abysmal head coach. Name a single head coach that is such a boot licking company man that he willingly causes the team to lose that isn't unemployed?

If the conspiracies are true about Tepper(or Morgan) pulling the Bryce strings, it makes Canales look far, far worse, not better.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Most of you guys would be worse than Tepper if you were owners.  He is 2/3rds of the way through his second season and we are half a game behind the division lead and have more wins than we have had in years.   Has Canales done some dumb things?  1000%  he has.  Has he outcoached some coaches that are really good?  Definitely, especially this season.  All young coaches make mistakes and stupid decisions and have to gain experience.  You cant just fire an inexperienced coach every year and a half Tepper wannabes.

I actually disagree. As many morons as the Huddle has, it's very hard to be as grossly incompetent as David Tepper has been.

I don't care if we fire Canales or not. He will get that accomplished himself soon enough without any Huddle input at all.

[blackcat]

I honestly believe he has a mandate from DM and DT to play and game plan around BY so they can figure out what they need to do in the offseason.  Although it's obvious what the answer is, they're going to give BY a full season to sh*t or get off the pot.  

[Waldo]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Hence the second paragraph. Stop being stupid is my message to the coaching staff.

This poo is not as complex as they seem to want us to believe.

It sure as hell looks too complex for them for sure at this point

[CRA]

lot folks IMO are really late to this Bryce Young problem.  Also the problem that Bryce Young doesn't fit at all with Dave Canales.  I have been preaching both since before week 1 of the 2024 season kicked off.   

And going into this year, I preached this entire season echoed Matt Rhule's pointless final season but it's Bryce.  Here we are.   And Dave is screwed.  Whatever you want him to do.....there is a real negative attached to it.   That's by our own design. 

and the heart of our issues IMO, is our the front office folks.  The management and windows they put us in.  It's been that way since Marty Hurney left.  Grass ain't always greener.  That's not a pro Hurney statement.  

Two biggest Tepper blunders, Matt Rhule.....followed by Fitterer.  And we we still have the Fitterer problem given his team stayed. 

 

[frankw]

16 minutes ago, strato said:

I don’t fundamentally disagree about Canales being weak.

Honestly and maybe unfortunately for me, I think he sounds feminine.  Have said so. And don’t think that plays in a super competitive hyper masculine environment such as a football locker room. If he is great at his job people will overlook something like that I think but he isn’t so far.

It is a given that he wasn’t ready for the job experience wise. So you have a strike there. 

But at the root of it he is here because of Bryce Young. No one wanted the job and people say it was Tepper but come on, look at it and tell me that coaches are gonna line up to risk their career when Bryce being locked in as your QB is part of the deal. And he really was the deal with the hiring. 
 

So the only way I think we could come out with a possible upgrade is getting rid of both Canales and Young. 
Maybe a quality coaching candidate becomes more interested when being allowed to pick his QB.  
At the same time, could Canales’ lerformance improve with a real QB? That is a fair question too.  

edit: I forgot the continuity card. I think it is supremely important and I think it is a major contributor to our years of dysfunction under Tepper. (Constantly undermining continuity in all areas)  *starting with switching to the 3-4 in year two of ownership  

We have some good things going on there and I believe we should be cautious about disrupting it.  

I understand why you mention the way he talks but I see it as largely irrelevant and not a needle mover one way or another.

How he prepares the team for gamedays and how he coaches and the decisions he makes on gamedays are what I am concerned about.

But replacing him is an issue that opens a can of worms some of us may not want to have to look at. Beginning with first and foremost if we fire Dave Canales then there is no rational logical reasoning for keeping Scott Fitterer's former right hand man Dan Morgan around. The only one who should be spared would be Tillis.

But that conversation has another layer to it. At the end of the day the justified speculative assumption is that these people are glorified yes men to David Tepper. So anyone else hired will be in the same vein and possibly an even more inferior version because realistically who will want the job as either GM or head coach?

So logic dictates that the most reasonable path from here unless we play horrifically the rest of the season is to completely overhaul the QB room and give Canales and Morgan one more year. Then if it is ultimately more of the same you clean house. Now some of us may not want to hear that right now and I completely understand. But that is the reality of the situation.

Edited 39 minutes ago by frankw

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, ThPantherFan said:

You may have a good point.

If you are throwing games to spite someone or don't have the "power" to bench players, you aren't a good head coach.

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

Dave Canales isn't the GM.  He doesn't get to just go out and do whatever he wants with the roster. 

We got 2 back to back coaches that have pretty much let this front office know from the jump they didn't want Bryce.  Both Frank and Dave did that IMO.  Early.  Bryce is still here. NFL is a stupid ego driven crazy mom and pop shop world.  We got front office problems.   

Dave Canales ain't swinging that Andy Reid weight around with an organization.   

Frank chose the money and stopped caring. He is still collecting.

A coach also doesn't have to play anyone he doesn't want to either. Or he could just do it and dare them to fire him. Stop making excuses. 

Also, him and Morgan are as tight as Frittz and Morgan were. There is zero proof he was railroaded on Bryce, Dalton or the poor #3 choices they have made.

Dave got ehat he wanted which was ro sit Bryce and work on him, something Frank was denied. Please stop acting like poor Dave was the victim when what went doen last year was always Morgan and Dave's plan. Sit, reset and let Dalto  buy some time. He'll they tried to do it again this year but Dalton got hurt on the forst drive. That was always 2 employees trying to force the boss into doing something they wanted. If Dave didn't want Young he wouldn't have come here and Morgan wouldn't have been successful in luring him here. Both were on the Youbg train and both still are. Dave just coached a game into a loss proving that. 

[Gapanthersfan]

I think the team circumstances are different than when Canales was hired. The roster was almost completely void of legit nfl talent AND nobody was going to want anything to do with Bryce. The season went exactly as it was supposed to. 

It’s different now. Half of the starters are actual legit good nfl players who would start on most other rosters. Good o line. Great RBs and stud WR1.  Rapidly improving defense. The team is a couple offseasons away and a journeyman QB away from being very competitive. Moreover, you can rack up a lot more wins in the NFC South than any other division in football so it’s an easier road to the playoffs. You’ve got to fade Tepper, but with the talent infusion, the job is a lot more attractive of HC candidates. 

At this point I see Canales as a bridge coach who has basically been nothing more than a placeholder to fall on his pocket knife for BY. There is no way on God’s green earth anyone in the locker room respects him after that BS on Monday night.

The only apprehension I have with wanting him gone is starting yet another coaching cycle change, but it is different this time around. 

 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I think the team circumstances are different than when Canales was hired. The roster was almost completely void of legit nfl talent AND nobody was going to want anything to do with Bryce. The season went exactly as it was supposed to. 

It’s different now. Half of the starters are actual legit good nfl players who would start on most other rosters. Good o line. Great RBs and stud WR1.  Rapidly improving defense. The team is a couple offseasons away and a journeyman QB away from being very competitive. Moreover, you can rack up a lot more wins in the NFC South than any other division in football so it’s an easier road to the playoffs. You’ve got to fade Tepper, but with the talent infusion, the job is a lot more attractive of HC candidates. 

At this point I see Canales as a bridge coach who has basically been nothing more than a placeholder to fall on his pocket knife for BY. There is no way on God’s green earth anyone in the locker room respects him after that BS on Monday night.

The only apprehension I have with wanting him gone is starting yet another coaching cycle change, but it is different this time around. 

 

Half of the roster?

We don't even have half of the starters that would start on most NFL teams. 

I also bristle at the idea of a "bridge" coach. That's letting Tepper off easy when it was juat plainly a bad fuging hire.

Especially when you have guys like Ben Johnson and Shane Steichen that aren't struggling this way.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

Frank chose the money and stopped caring. He is still collecting.

A coach also doesn't have to play anyone he doesn't want to either. Or he could just do it and dare them to fire him. Stop making excuses. 

Also, him and Morgan are as tight as Frittz and Morgan were. There is zero proof he was railroaded on Bryce, Dalton or the poor #3 choices they have made.

Dave got ehat he wanted which was ro sit Bryce and work on him, something Frank was denied. Please stop acting like poor Dave was the victim when what went doen last year was always Morgan and Dave's plan. Sit, reset and let Dalto  buy some time. He'll they tried to do it again this year but Dalton got hurt on the forst drive. That was always 2 employees trying to force the boss into doing something they wanted. If Dave didn't want Young he wouldn't have come here and Morgan wouldn't have been successful in luring him here. Both were on the Youbg train and both still are. Dave just coached a game into a loss proving that. 

Frank got a dude forced on him who couldn't do NFL basics.   And we know factually, NFL coaches often are made to do things.  We know often they don't get there way.  That's called having a job and a boss.   

Those aren't excuses.  People make up this mythical NFL world. 

Canales LITERALLY ended Bryce's Young's career here 2 games into the Canales era.  That is the reality.  Then there was that miracle climb out of the grave stupidity that Dan Morgan allowed by not solving the issue like the entire sports world was debating (where would he be traded to and for how much).   The "benching to fix him" narrative is comical PR. 

Every year it's the same poo.  Obvious problems are obvious.  But we do all these mental gymnastics to pretend the obvious isn't the obvious.  It's well documented.  The problem was Matt Rhule.  Majority of the board spent years spinning it elsewhere.  Then the obvious problem was Fitterer.  Repeat.  Board spent years spinning it elsehwere and deflecting. 

Obvious problem right now is Bryce Young and the front office that refuses to admit they made one of the worst moves in the history of the NFL.  Because when it is finally said and done.....THAT will be a fact.   And that fact, will be attached to resume of a lot of people presently employed in the front office of BOA. 

The main problem is not Canales.  And I don't blame him for not trying to win every game he possibly can as ugly as possible in spite of Bryce Young.  That carries too high of odds of keeping the main problem the main problem....and screws Canales in the end.   Canales will be fired next season if he can't get this group to move off Bryce Young.  That's the easiest thing to see. 

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Frank got a dude forced on him who couldn't do NFL basics.   And we know factually, NFL coaches often are made to do things.  We know often they don't get there way.  That's called having a job and a boss.   

Those aren't excuses.  People make up this mythical NFL world. 

Canales LITERALLY ended Bryce's Young's career here 2 games into the Canales era.  That is the reality.  Then there was that miracle climb out of the grave stupidity that Dan Morgan allowed by not solving the issue like the entire sports world was debating (where would he be traded to and for how much).   The "benching to fix him" narrative is comical PR. 

Every year it's the same poo.  Obvious problems are obvious.  But we do all these mental gymnastics to pretend the obvious isn't the obvious.  It's well documented.  The problem was Matt Rhule.  Majority of the board spent years spinning it elsewhere.  Then the obvious problem was Fitterer.  Repeat.  Board spent years spinning it elsehwere and deflecting. 

Obvious problem right now is Bryce Young and the front office that refuses to admit they made one of the worst moves in the history of the NFL.  Because when it is finally said and done.....THAT will be a fact.   And that fact, will be attached to resume of a lot of people presently employed in the front office of BOA. 

The main problem is not Canales.  And I don't blame him for not trying to win every game he possibly can as ugly as possible in spite of Bryce Young.  That carries too high of odds of keeping the main problem the main problem....and screws Canales in the end.   Canales will be fired next season if he can't get this group to move off Bryce Young.  That's the easiest thing to see. 

Frank was a guy who was headed into retirement and was lured into a nightmare setup for big money. Not a victim. Ohh and he worked the owner so hard he is srill getting g paid. He chose that over the fight at QB or with the owner. Easy call 

You constantly make excuses for Dave but are correct on the front office side. It's both. The DC ended Bryces career is a dead take at this point. It was the plan and they literally tried again this year when he was choking again. DC and Morgan knew what they wanted to do and what Tepper didn't allow the year before. If he wanted Young gone he wouldn't have been working on Young's technique, Tepper wouldn't know the difference. He also would have had another QB option other than Dalton who couldn't finish out a year. And he sure as hell wouldn't have repeated it this year. But he is just a HC right? It's not like a 'QB wisperer' wouldn't be consulted on resigning Dalton or what scrub they brought in...

The main problem is Tepper. Dave and Dan are symptoms of that. Neither are good and neither are terrible. Both have shown recent proof they are still on the Bryce train. Dave's time is always going to be short because he was never ready and all the hype was BS. Baker wasn't fixed, he got his head out of his own arse and was put in a good situation again. If Tepper demanded a pass first approach and he allowed that to happen then he is weak AF and is worse than I currently think. Yes he has a boss but you know what the rest of us do with a crappy boss? Whatever we can think of to work that mess while planning the next job option. 

 

[Stuart Smith]

3 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

i find this to be alarming on so many levels 

im going to change the order of the portions i copied from Joe’s article

i  really have serious doubts   about Canales’ common sense 

1. A running team forgetting to run 

2. Making this game plan about Young’s passing game momentum .  Total idiot.  It is about winning games not about young’s momentum. That is what practice is for , not live games 

god help us all. 
 

Article below 

Confused by the Panthers’ pass-heavy play calls vs. 49ers? Rico Dowdle probably was, too

 

CHARLOTTE, N.C. —

In two seasons here, Canales has juggled offensive play calling with his head coach responsibilities. Sometimes the balls end up on the floor.

In two critical moments Monday night, Canales chose to go with a pass in situations where a handoff would have been the more direct approach. The first was the disastrous, first-and-goal play from the 1 where Bryce Young opted against running in for the score and instead lobbed the ball toward rookie Mitchell Evans, only to see safety Ji’Ayir Brown come down with it.

The second one was just as perplexing. When the 49ers were whistled for roughing long snapper J.J. Jansen on Ryan Fitzgerald’s successful PAT pulled the Panthers to 17-10, Canales took the point off the board and went for a 2-pointer from the 1.

But Canales ran a play that didn’t take advantage of the spot, with Young missing Jalen Coker in the back of the end zone. (Rookie wideout Jimmy Horn Jr. appeared to be the first read in the flat.)

Canales said after the game he wanted to build on Young’s record-breaking passing performance in Atlanta, and thought the line was protecting well. But that lack of rhythm Canales mentioned was the result of never giving Dowdle the opportunity to get into it.

When Dowdle ripped off a 17-yard gain on the first offensive play of the second half, Canales came back to him two plays later. It was his final carry.

 

After an overnight, cross-country flight, Rico Dowdle began his Tuesday — at least on social media — with an emoji.

Dowdle’s post on Xcontained no words accompanying the face with spiral eyes emoji, which EmojiTerra tells us symbolizes “confusion, dizziness, overwhelm or being utterly shocked.” Per the website, it’s often used to convey “feeling dazed, hypnotized, or caught off-guard in troubling or surprising situations.”

It’s not hard to figure out why the Carolina Panthers running back would be feeling some or all of those emotions.

Dowdle has been one of the Panthers’ fun, feel-good stories this season, an Asheville native who signed a prove-it deal with his home-state team and then got right to the business of proving it.

Before the Panthers hosted the Dallas Cowboys in Week 6, Dowdle warned his former team to “buckle up,” then backed up his words by running for 183 yards and racking up 239 yards from scrimmage.

But in a 20-9 loss to the San Francisco 49ers on Monday night, it was Dowdle who was buckled up. And the guy who strapped Dowdle into a safety harness and threw on the child-safety locks was none other than Panthers coach Dave Canales.

Dowdle led all backs Monday — including Christian McCaffrey — by averaging 6.3 yards per carry. But while 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan was feeding McCaffrey a cornucopia of 24 carries and 31 touches, Dowdle finished with a meager six rushing attempts. That matched his season low from a loss at Arizona in Week 2, when Chuba Hubbard was still RB1 and the Panthers were throwing nearly every down in the second half trying to catch up.

Dowdle wasn’t the only back Canales dissed. Hubbard had just three carries and the Panthers finished with 13 as a team, tied for the fifth fewest in franchise history. Some of it was about opportunity, or lack of it.

With the 49ers’ two touchdown drives consuming more than 16 minutes, the Panthers ran just 43 offensive plays, which matched their low under Canales and tied for the second fewest in team history. But Canales, who arrived in Charlotte last year preaching the balanced offense gospel, conceded Tuesday that he didn’t emphasize the running plays on his call sheet nearly enough.

“Offensively, just could not get our rhythm going. And really it just started off with the run game. I have to make sure that that comes alive,” he said during an opening statement to reporters. “That’s a part of who we are. It’s a part of what we believe in. We have two great backs that contribute to this team. The offensive line was blocking well and that was a missed opportunity by me. And I’ll do better in that regard.”
 

 

 

Dowdle will have offers after the season. The way he utilized this game has to be concerning to him, you can tell he was clearly frustrated. He will not stick around with coaching we saw in this game. He’s probably gone.