Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...

[Navy_football]

54 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I want better than Bryce too

I absolutelyagree. I also want better than TMac right now, better than Coker and Legette. I want better than Evans and Sanders too. Those players aren't great. They're below average to good right now. But I do believe they can all improve as they get more experience along with their HC/OC. I guess where I differ from the consensus is that I see BY improving. Just as his targets are. His list of dumb ish is diminishing every game. And his list of good plays are increasing. 

[PanthersATL]

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

And his list of good plays are increasing. 

he's racking up records, recognition

Who would have thought Bryce would break a Cam passing record?

[rebelrouser]

11 minutes ago, Lemur Lathon said:

Dalton should retire.

Why? He signed a contract that says he gets paid 3.9M next year as a 39 year old or we take a 5.8M cap hit.  He would be a fool to walk away from that.  

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, PanthersATL said:

he's racking up records, recognition

Who would have thought Bryce would break a Cam passing record?

I know we want to consistently see more yards. I do too. But 175 yards, 3 TDs and no INTs can win games. Heck, it actually is for Carolina this season. 

[Jon Snow]

16 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I know we want to consistently see more yards. I do too. But 175 yards, 3 TDs and no INTs can win games. Heck, it actually is for Carolina this season. 

I think folks should take a look the the total yards most qbs are getting each week. Its all over the place. Even Allen isn't hitting 200 yards per game most games. Most are are around 175 to 200 yards on any given week. It's becoming more common and I'm not sure why.

Edited 22 minutes ago by Jon Snow

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I think folks should take a look the the total yards most gbs are getting each week. Its all over the place. Even Allen isn't hitting 200 yards per game most games. Most are are around 175 to 200 yards on any given week. It's becoming more common and I'm not sure why.

Big passing yards usually come with big YAC. Teams are playing alot more cover 2 and 3 nowadays. Panthers are just now figuring out they should take shots deep when the defense is in 0 or 1. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

10 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I think folks should take a look the the total yards most qbs are getting each week. Its all over the place. Even Allen isn't hitting 200 yards per game most games. Most are are around 175 to 200 yards on any given week. It's becoming more common and I'm not sure why.

I think a lot has to do with a significant amount of injuries increasing as well. It seems like this year especially, there have just been a ridiculous number of injuries across the board. There's not really a 1 and 2 receiver because most teams have been lucky just to keep a number 1 on the field. If you go and look at the list of injuries to RB, WR and TE this year, it's pretty appalling how many guys have missed time. 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

There is no amount of mental gymnastics that will ever justify making the statement "we won in spite of him".

I could cite a number of games where Cam Newton, Jake Delhomme, Brett Favre, John Elway and plenty of others looked like horsesh-t for a significant portion of the game, but somehow still did enough to win. That's football.

The facts are:

Bryce Young is an NFL quarterback.

Bryce Young is legitimately capable of winning NFL games.

Bryce Young deserves credit for his part in all of our wins under his leadership.

...

All of these statements are validated by the simple truth of what we've seen with our own eyes.

Is there still a valid argument to be made that Bryce should not be made our "franchise" quarterback. Yes there is, and I would remind everyone in this thread that I'm one of the people trying to make it. 

But...

Those facts cited above cannot be discounted or disproved.

They must be acknowledged, and any argument which doesn't loses touch with reality.

And as a consequence of their validity, my attempts to articulate this argument become...

...significantly more difficult.

I'll still make the argument, but that effort will not include any denial of the truth. 

Teams can win in spite of bad offense.  In spite of bad defense.  In spite of bad ST.  In spite of being weak at corner.  In spite of weak WRs.  In spite of weak QB play. 

like I said, what is taking place is the unique cherry pick where some fans say we can't state the obvious reality about the QB spot.  But look at Atlanta!  But look at these 3 throws in this game he was treated as a backup for every single other snap!  Exceptions don't make the rule or change the big picture.

I have seen lots of your post, I don't recall you rushing to Philly Brown's defense when it was just matter of fact stated Cam Newton won NFL MVP/went to the Super Bowl despite a weak WR cast.  The entire board universally agreed the weak link to that roster was what it was.     I would reckon if I searched hard enough, I could find you making the same matter of statement that teams do in fact win in spite of very clear weaknesses. 

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Aggressively go after a QB? Like 2 first rounders, a second rounder and TMac aggressive? That's what got us here. Build the team, then get the QB. If you think this passing offense is set minus BY today, you're not being honest with yourself. Now they have potential, but they aren't as good as many seem to think. I can't think of any games this season where I said yeah our receivers and TEs are better than theirs.

If they can upgrade QB without doing something ridiculous, then I'm all for it. If not, then continue to improve the TEAM and THEN get your rookie QB like they should have done 3 seasons ago.

I feel as though anything like that is at least a year away.

[Mr. Scot]

52 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I think Bryce is going to be brought back, but I also think it is a good year to draft a QB in the middle rounds who might fall.  There are some who were once thought to be first rounders and who are suddenly 2nd or 3rd rounders.  One example is Sellers who is supposedly falling into the late first--if he continues to drop, we'd be stupid not to move up into the early second and take him--imo.  He is Cam Lite, if you ask me.  Of course, as the draft gets closer, there will be premiums put on QBs.  We can already put Simpson, Moore, Mendoza in the top 5 or so, imo, the next tier is where the QB value is going to be

I'm not a big Sellers fan.

[Mr. Scot]

43 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I absolutelyagree. I also want better than TMac right now, better than Coker and Legette. I want better than Evans and Sanders too. Those players aren't great. They're below average to good right now. But I do believe they can all improve as they get more experience along with their HC/OC. I guess where I differ from the consensus is that I see BY improving. Just as his targets are. His list of dumb ish is diminishing every game. And his list of good plays are increasing. 

I get what you're saying with this, but I think it's a little overstated. I'm happy with most of the guys you named.

What I'll agree with though is that yes, Young has shown legitimate improvement in his passing and that progress should not be minimized, ignored or dismissed.

[Mr. Scot]

37 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I know we want to consistently see more yards. I do too. But 175 yards, 3 TDs and no INTs can win games. Heck, it actually is for Carolina this season. 

The only yards I care about are the ones past the goal line.