First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[frankw]

I cannot believe I just saw someone say the Saints have a better supporting cast around their QB.

Bye week brain rot is real.

[Sup]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Kamara is certainly later in his career but he's not exactly chopped liver. Again, outside this fanbase i doubt he'd lose that contest.

As far as other comparisons:

I'd put Tet McMillan equal with Chris Olave, though I think McMillan might be hitting a bit of a rookie wall. Others may say McMillan is promising but not to that level just yet.

Damian Lewis is equal to or better than Dillon Radunz and Ickey is better than Kelvin Banks, though Banks even as a rookie ain't bad. The left side of our OL wins, but not in a blowout.

On the other side, if he were fully healthy I could argue Taylor Moton over Taliese Fuaga but I don't think he is. The Saints likely take that one for now at least, and probably in the future since Fuaga is younger.

Jalen Coker is getting back to form. Putting him over Dante Perris right now is probably a bit of a stretch but he's still doing well.

So this far, fairly comparable / even.

But here's where it starts to get bad...

Whoever's starting at center this week vs Luke Fortner? Eeehhh, no.

Right guard of the week against Cesar Ruiz? Uh uh.

Any of our TEs vs Juwan Johnson? Don't think so.

Xavier Legette over anybody at all? Oy

So yeah, overall at this point Shough has a better supporting cast around him.

Once Hunt and others are healthy again it becomes a better argument, but as mentioned the league isn't willing to postpone things so we can be at our best.

The only way Kamara would win over Chuba and Rico would be based on name recognition and how he played several years ago. Which to be honest feels like what you're doing here.

Edited 1 hour ago by Sup

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I just click ESPN, NFL, Stats and it goes straight to season totals.  If you want to dismiss certain games to help one player vs another you go right ahead.  

You only think one side is way worse because you are on the other side.  They both are annoying I assure you. 

I mean, I often separated PJ Walker's starts vs his garbage time.  We generally edit out 2 games from Bryce when talking about him last year.  All depends what discussion you are having. 

but if you are having an honesty discussion on Shough and how he is playing and start talking per game production.....a 0-2, 0 yard, 4th quarter technical appearance is going to massive distort his per game production given his limited playing time. 

The OG goal of of this thread was a legit look at surprisingly play of our next opponent.  That's supposed to be normal football talk.   But most QBs indirectly make Bryce look bad and the stans can't have that.

[ForJimmy]

Just now, CRA said:

I mean, I often separated PJ Walker's starts vs his garbage time.  We generally edit out 2 games from Bryce when talking about him last year.  All depends what discussion you are having. 

but if you are having an honesty discussion on Shough and how he is playing and start talking per game production.....a 0-2, 0 yard, 4th quarter technical appearance is going to massive distort his per game production given his limited playing time. 

The OG goal of of this thread was a legit look at surprisingly play of our next opponent.  That's supposed to be normal football talk.   But most QBs indirectly make Bryce look bad and the stans can't have that.

I think Shough is playing well.  Kellen Moore knows how to develop/help a QB.  If Shough keeps this up the Saints might be able to pass on drafting one this year to give him another season.  He is an older rookie so he needs to play well fast and he appears to be doing so.

The 4th quarter play was my point.  It doesn't change much but it happened to drop him below Bryce which you clearly aren't a fan of so you had to manipulate the data to make him higher and just look at starts vs season totals.  Regardless they are very close this year and you seem to think Shough is playing well... which means???

[PNW_PantherMan]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I think Shough is playing well.  Kellen Moore knows how to develop/help a QB.  If Shough keeps this up the Saints might be able to pass on drafting one this year to give him another season.  He is an older rookie so he needs to play well fast and he appears to be doing so.

The 4th quarter play was my point.  It doesn't change much but it happened to drop him below Bryce which you clearly aren't a fan of so you had to manipulate the data to make him higher and just look at starts vs season totals.  Regardless they are very close this year and you seem to think Shough is playing well... which means???

They should absolutely pass and go BPA.  This years class doesn’t look great.  At most take another guy on day 3.

[SmokinwithWilly]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, I often separated PJ Walker's starts vs his garbage time.  We generally edit out 2 games from Bryce when talking about him last year.  All depends what discussion you are having. 

but if you are having an honesty discussion on Shough and how he is playing and start talking per game production.....a 0-2, 0 yard, 4th quarter technical appearance is going to massive distort his per game production given his limited playing time. 

The OG goal of of this thread was a legit look at surprisingly play of our next opponent.  That's supposed to be normal football talk.   But most QBs indirectly make Bryce look bad and the stans can't have that.

I guess technically speaking, Gunner Olszewski is the best passer in the league right now going 1 for 1 for 33 yards and a TD and a 158.3 rating on the season. 

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

They should absolutely pass and go BPA.  This years class doesn’t look great.  At most take another guy on day 3.

I would.  Give Shough another offseason and see if he can keep getting better as they build the roster.  Honestly Rattler wasn't horrible and could develop into a nice backup as well.  

[TN05]

19 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I think Shough is playing well.  Kellen Moore knows how to develop/help a QB.  If Shough keeps this up the Saints might be able to pass on drafting one this year to give him another season.  He is an older rookie so he needs to play well fast and he appears to be doing so.

The 4th quarter play was my point.  It doesn't change much but it happened to drop him below Bryce which you clearly aren't a fan of so you had to manipulate the data to make him higher and just look at starts vs season totals.  Regardless they are very close this year and you seem to think Shough is playing well... which means???

Shough is not playing well. In six games played he has seven turnovers, a 1:1 turnover/TD ratio, and a 2-4 record.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I guess technically speaking, Gunner Olszewski is the best passer in the league right now going 1 for 1 for 33 yards and a TD and a 158.3 rating on the season. 

ESPN has this qualifier. 

To qualify, a player must have at least 14 attempts per team's games played

• Statistics are updated nightly

NFL.com does not and it has Gunner and Cam Akers with the best rating.  Just another reason why pure stats are silly.  Funny enough neither of them remove data from games players didn't start or finish.  Weird right?

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

They should absolutely pass and go BPA.  This years class doesn’t look great.  At most take another guy on day 3.

I do think we should look at a QB in this class. It is fairly loaded with good backup QB prospects. It would be nice to tote a developmental prospect around again for a bit. Well, one that isn't a three year starter....

Edited 1 hour ago by kungfoodude

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Shough is not playing well. In six games played he has seven turnovers, a 1:1 turnover/TD ratio, and a 2-4 record.

Wins losses aren't really on him.  They are what 1-6, 1-7 in games he didn't play.  Again looking at just stats without context is not always the best indicator.  He did what was needed to beat the Bucs last week including a final drive to run out the clock, he picked us apart and he played well against Miami.  The ATL game was pretty bad but overall he has played well these last 4/5 games.  If you are wanting to look at wins they are 2-2 over their last 4 after a 1-8 start.  

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I think Shough is playing well.  Kellen Moore knows how to develop/help a QB.  If Shough keeps this up the Saints might be able to pass on drafting one this year to give him another season.  He is an older rookie so he needs to play well fast and he appears to be doing so.

The 4th quarter play was my point.  It doesn't change much but it happened to drop him below Bryce which you clearly aren't a fan of so you had to manipulate the data to make him higher and just look at starts vs season totals.  Regardless they are very close this year and you seem to think Shough is playing well... which means???

from my perspective, I call looking at quarterbacks starts when talking about him....and someone calling that manipulating the data, a wild take though.   Think it's the most accurate way to view what you get out of a QB when his team and the opposing team both have game planned w/ that QB in mind and you have the full game.  All these random bits of games distort the statistics IMO. 

What does saying Shough is playing surprisingly well mean? Literally nothing outside of our next opponent has a rookie playing surprisingly well (and it's enough we can't dismiss that after a very surprising first game vs us).   

and it's not a favor done just for him.  I've always taken out the random games form dudes when talking about them when the sample size is small.  I mean, ask PJ Walker to come in a blowout or start a game and IMO you get 2 very different things out of PJ Walker.   If you are playing against him next week, it's probably best to acknowledge the variant that starts vs inserted late.    

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Wins losses aren't really on him.  They are what 1-6, 1-7 in games he didn't play.  Again looking at just stats without context is not always the best indicator.  He did what was needed to beat the Bucs last week including a final drive to run out the clock, he picked us apart and he played well against Miami.  The ATL game was pretty bad but overall he has played well these last 4/5 games.  If you are wanting to look at wins they are 2-2 over their last 4 after a 1-8 start.  

really need a thread on the Saints D.  Really feels like a large % of Panthers fans dismiss the last Saints game and just some fluke and we will just win this week.   There QB and D didn't just play well vs us last time, past several weeks they seem to have really gotten on a good track vs earlier this year.   

It will be a tough game IMO, just as tough as the Bucs games will be. 

 

[Jmac]

22 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Shough is not playing well. In six games played he has seven turnovers, a 1:1 turnover/TD ratio, and a 2-4 record.

How the fug did he beat us......