The Hall of Fame case for two different NFC South quarterbacks

[Verge]

Hey y'all, a topic that has been on my mind has always been the parallels between two of the best quarterbacks in the history of the NFC South and ultimately their place in history and how they are viewed moving forward through the rest of NFL history. These two quarterbacks as you might have guessed are their respective franchises greatest signal callers, Cam Newton and Matt Ryan. 

Cam Newton (144 Games Started):
269 TDs (1.8 per contest), 123 INTs, Super Bowl Appearance, OROTY, MVP 

Matt Ryan (234 Games Starter):
 394 TDs (1.6 per contest), 183 INTs, Super Bowl Appearance, OROTY, MVP 

Obviously on first glance, these are very similar players with identical top accomplishments. Let's zoom in a little bit on their surrounding talent. C

Cam Newton top offensive producers: 
Greg Olsen (TE) (9 Seasons) (3 Pro Bowls)
Steve Smith Sr. (WR) (3 Seasons) (1 Pro Bowl)


Matt Ryan top offensive producers: 
Julio Jones (WR) (10 Seasons) (7 Pro Bowls) 
Roddy White (WR) (8 Seasons) (4 Pro Bowls) 
Tony Gonzalez (TE) (5 Seasons) (4 Pro Bowls) 

Wow, quite the difference here. Through Cam's career his top option was Greg Olsen, who was one of the best tight ends of his generation and a real difference maker in an offense reliant on their quarterback making plays outside of structure. Newton post Steve Smith Sr was saddled with a revolving door of Chicken McNobodies at the receiver position and the offense had to be funneled through the tight end and running attack as Jericho Cotchery, Corey Brown, Jason Avant, Kelvin Benjamin, etc was not getting the job done. Ryan on the other hand was consistently surrounded with top level offensive weapons, including one of the best receivers and tight ends in the history of the game, thanks in part to an aggressive general manager who wanted to ensure they could maximize the arm talent of their franchise quarterback. 

How about protection? 

Cam Newton top offensive lineman:
Jordan Gross (3 Seasons) (1 Pro Bowl) 
Ryan Kalil (8 Seasons) (2 Pro Bowls)
Andrew Norwell (4 Seasons) 
Trai Turner (6 Seasons) (5 Pro Bowls)

Matt Ryan top offensive lineman: 
Jake Matthews (8 Seasons) (1 Pro Bowl) 
Alex Mack (5 Seasons) (3 Pro Bowls) 
Andy Levitre (3 Seasons) 
Todd McLure (5 Seasons) 

While Matt Ryan certainly had more consistency and high level talent on his offensive line, one could argue they had similar protection through the bulk of their career. Though one has to acknowledge some of the absolute dog water lineman that were trot out to protect Newton at his tackle spots post Jordan Gross retirement. Byron Bell, Mike Remmers, Matt Kalil, Chris Clark, Amini Silatolu, Nate Chandler, etc were all a collective pile of garbage save for two seasons from Remmers and a few splashes of brilliance from Michael Oher, Daryl Williams, and early career Taylor Moton. 

Defense should be fairly simple. 

Cam Newton defense average rank: 
17th/32

Matt Ryan defense average rank: 
18th/32 

Honestly I was a bit surprised by this, I had thought Cam consistently had the better defenses, but when you look at the average it's shockingly close. While Newton did have the higher peaks of defense, Atlanta placed higher more consistently and only really faltered towards the end of Ryan's career. Both these players had on and off again defenses to rely on. 

So what does all this mean? 
1. I am bored at work 
2. Cam Newton has the better body of work given the talent around him 

While I am not sure either is necessarily a lock to get a gold jacket, it's undeniable that Newton carried his franchise on his back for the better part of his career and changed how quarterbacks are viewed as a whole. Newton became the blueprint for a new breed of signal caller, and Ryan is the standard that is set for pocket quarterbacks in the modern league. Both players deserve their kudos for what they did for their franchises and how they morphed their team's identity, but Newton I think was clearly the better of the NFC South quarterbacks, especially if he had remained as healthy as Ryan did. 

[csx]

Neither are HOF 

[woahfraze]

I think if you look at Cam Newton’s rushing totals, there is an argument he should be in the HOF. I wrote a post many years ago comparing his TD total to those of great RBs of yesteryear’s past. Unfortunately I cannot find that post, and I don’t recall the specifics, but the takeaway was that players above a certain total rushing TD were all in the HOF.  And those players were all RBs that I was comparing Cam to. At the time, Cam may not quite have been there yet, but if you projected forward, he was on pace to easily clear the hurdle. I have no idea if he ended up doing that since his career was cut short. 
 

That being said, even if he did make it to whatever that threshold was, I think he was too polarizing a player, with too short a peak, for voters to put him in the HOF. 

[AggieLean]

Cam didn’t last long enough. He won’t make it. 
 

Great player. The best QB in franchise history. 2011-2018 was a good time. 

[Waldo]

They both seem to me like guys that will get passed over until there are no better options left. Good but not great and no SB victories is what I see. Cam's rushing adds to his case largely but then his personality washes that IMO(not for me personally but it's common outside of Carolina fanbase, so many peole hated Cam and with him working in the media now it sure feels like S Smith all over again). 

[csx]

Manning and Warner are the only QBs to get in who played post 2000. With Brees, Brady, Ben R. Who won superpower in that same time frame its just not likely IMO

[AggieLean]

Matty Ice won’t get in either. Another great player who was responsible for Atlanta’s best seasons, but just isn’t quite hall worthy. 

[OneBadCat]

If refs didn't rig SB 50 Cam might have had a shot if his career pretty much stayed the same. But since he was derailed by injury, I don't see it happening.

[strato]

Neither. 

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

Cam didn’t last long enough. He won’t make it. 
 

Great player. The best QB in franchise history. 2011-2018 was a good time. 

Yep, he shone brightly and was gone quickly, like a shooting star.

We also have to remember that statistical arguments aren't likely to be as big of a factor as human elements. If you read the accounts of the HOF committee discussions, I think it's much less statistically oriented and far more opinions of ex-players and coaches. 

Ryan was a very, very good QB throughout his NFL career but I never considered him elite. He was always that grouping behind the truly "elite" players. Absolutely stellar career but not HOF caliber.

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, Waldo said:

They both seem to me like guys that will get passed over until there are no better options left. Good but not great and no SB victories is what I see. Cam's rushing adds to his case largely but then his personality washes that IMO(not for me personally but it's common outside of Carolina fanbase, so many peole hated Cam and with him working in the media now it sure feels like S Smith all over again). 

I think had either Ryan or Cam gotten their ring, it might be a different discussion. That looks large on their legacies.

[AggieLean]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I think had either Ryan or Cam gotten their ring, it might be a different discussion. That looks large on their legacies.

Yea, I think for sure if Cam wins it in 2015, they would’ve found a way to get him in the hall. Guess the same could be said for Ryan. 
 

Sucks, because that 2017 year, I believe if they could’ve just got by the saints in the playoffs, we would’ve gone to the Super Bowl again. Cam carried that squad on his back like no other. If only one of Kaylin or Funchess catches their gimme TDs

[csx]

22 minutes ago, csx said:

Manning and Warner are the only QBs to get in who played post 2000. With Brees, Brady, Ben R. Who won superpower in that same time frame its just not likely IMO

Superb Owl

[SmokinwithWilly]

In order to get in, Cam has to actually retire. I don't believe he's done that yet and has no intentions of doing so any time soon waiting for an opportunity for a comeback.