to all the Low-T Betas crying about "do we want to win" / "we'll get embarrassed the next week"

[Mage]

3 hours ago, LegioX said:

Yes the Panthers are my favorite team. Been following them since the Clemson football field days. I’m just fed up with this “inconsistency” day in and day out. Are we going to suck or are we going to be contenders? We all know they are not ready for prime time games. Look at this season. We all know Bryce is not the guy to lead us deep into a playoff run, since he folds like a wet noodle when under pressure. We have good rookies on or team that are going to be wasted with this inconsistency.

Acknowledging that we aren't a good team vs actively rooting for them to get destroyed and not make the playoffs are two entirely different things.

Yes, Panthers aren't good.  Yes, we likely won't go far in the playoffs.  But why would you rather see your favorite team not even have the opportunity?  Who is to say we have another chance at making the playoffs for the next 10 years?  Jets haven't made the playoffs since 2010! Think about that.  

All of you keep focusing on unknowns and whatnot.  Here is the biggest unknown: we don't know when we will have another chance.  It could be 2035.  It could be 2040.  Let that sink in for a moment.

Yet, instead of wanting to capitalize on the opportunity, you want to see the team get beat down.  And for what?  Because MAYBE we move on from Bryce Young?  And what will you do if that doesn't happen anyway?  What would we have gained from missing the playoffs then?

And look, I'm not trying to sound holier-than-thou.  Not trying to demean you as a fan or anything like that.  But just try to enjoy the moment because it could be a long time, as sad it sounds, before we are in this position again.  You just don't know.  And if you don't believe me, go find a Jets fan.  Go find a Browns fan.  Go find a Lions fan from the mid 90s-2010s.  Go find a Dolphins fan. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Mage

[mrcompletely11]

6 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Getting to the playoffs would be cool. I was worried that the FO would see it as Bryce being successful but if the recent Canales conference is any indication the FO and coaching staff are seeing the same things we are seeing. 
So I am just enjoying the ride. Hoping it is busily if to a better year next season, with another QB starting hopefully. 

Thats 1000% how the team and media would sell it

[kungfoodude]

41 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Getting to the playoffs would be cool. I was worried that the FO would see it as Bryce being successful but if the recent Canales conference is any indication the FO and coaching staff are seeing the same things we are seeing. 
So I am just enjoying the ride. Hoping it is busily if to a better year next season, with another QB starting hopefully. 

I don't think that is a valid worry.

IMO, they have been sold on him almost the entire season and that isn't going to change, win or lose.

It's just a matter of time. Hopefully they figure it out by the time a contract extension comes up and don't saddle us with a deathstroke for this revision of the franchise. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

Agree.

 Many players on this team work their asses off everyday to get to this point and fans have waited for years for an inkling of success. To pull for a loss at this point (as a fan) makes no sense to me. The Tanking argument (which I don’t get either) is closer to rational than this mindset IMO. 

I agree. I am long over the draft position thing. Good front offices are good at evaluations. They can get players. Bad teams consistently draft in the top 10 because they fail at evaluations often.

There is no rational argument to root against your own team in this scenario.

[LegioX]

40 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I agree. I am long over the draft position thing. Good front offices are good at evaluations. They can get players. Bad teams consistently draft in the top 10 because they fail at evaluations often.

There is no rational argument to root against your own team in this scenario.

The thought of having a QB for the foreseeable future that is not progressing after 4 years and regularly plays games where he is going into the 4th with less than 100 yards total and can’t throw a deep pass to save his life seems pathetic for this team

this team is playing its ass off but we are handicapped by a QB that cannot play the position. 

Edited 5 hours ago by LegioX

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, LegioX said:

The thought of having a QB for the foreseeable future that is not progressing after 4 years and regularly plays games where he is going into the 4th with less than 100 yards total and can’t throw a deep pass to save his life seems pathetic for this team

this team is playing its ass off but we are handicapped by a QB that cannot play the position. 

And that is another extension of the evaluation problem that plagues this franchise. All that fault lies with the Tepper-Morgan-Canales "braintrust."

You will get the final word on those three when you see what they decide to do at QB this offseason. If we stand pat, it's safe to say that Tepper hasn't changed, Dan is just an extension of Fitterer and at the very best, Canales is a yes man.

The story has largely been written. It's just about what chapter they all choose to accept the ending.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, Mage said:

How could anyone possibly know this?  We have missed the playoffs for how many years now, and what has that gotten us?

I'm not going to pretend like I know what the FO is going to do 3-4 months from now.  What I do know is the NFL season is extremely short, and the opportunity to see my favorite team host a playoff game for the first time in 10 years is something I want to see.  And it stuns me that there are Panthers fan who don't want to see that.

And again, to each their own - but I think some of you are focusing way too much on unknowns.  Do we really think, if this FO has any intentions of moving on from Bryce Young, that one game is about to make the difference with that?  Like, come on now.  In all likelihood, they have already made a decision.

I just think people should try and just enjoy the moment more.  The NFL changes fast.  Who says we don't go another 7-10 years after this without making the playoffs?    

The question wasn't about knowing the future. It was to ascertain if you could see the logic behind the question. Short term pain of missing the playoffs for a season for the long term gain of perpetual contender. 

As to whether or not the FO has made their determination, I don't know. What i have seen is a QB that has been given more opportunity than deserved based on the results. If not for draft position, Bryce would have been cut a long time ago. If Bryce has an Atlanta type game in the first round of the playoffs, I could 100% see Tepper stepping in and offering him a huge extension to prove he knew it all along. 

I see both sides of the argument. Enjoy the playoffs while you can. Who knows when you'll be back. Or, feel the pain of missing the playoffs, but force the FO and most importantly the meddling owner to get real honest about our QB room.

I haven't seen anything out of Morgan that gives me any reason to believe he doesn't think Bryce is the answer. Signing an ancient Dalton when clearly better options were available. Bringing back Plummer, who was camp bait the year before. We've purposefully ignored improvement in our QB room. My personal opinion, we shielded Bryce from feeling any pressure behind him. 

A humiliating defeat Saturday with Bryce putting up the biggest stinkerof his career may be what's necessary to wake this FO up. And who knows, we could lose Saturday, Falcons win, we still back into the playoffs with a losing record and the FO finally clues in the QB room has to be addressed at the 1,2 and 3 spots. 

Edited 4 hours ago by SmokinwithWilly

[SmokinwithWilly]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

And that is another extension of the evaluation problem that plagues this franchise. All that fault lies with the Tepper-Morgan-Canales "braintrust."

You will get the final word on those three when you see what they decide to do at QB this offseason. If we stand pat, it's safe to say that Tepper hasn't changed, Dan is just an extension of Fitterer and at the very best, Canales is a yes man.

The story has largely been written. It's just about what chapter they all choose to accept the ending.

I think most of us aren't really Bryce haters as called but more so really confused and ticked off at this FO and it's behavior surrounding the QB room. The things they've done look like Bryce is being protected, shielded, whatever you want to call it, and that's coming from only one person, Tepper. He made the pick and he recognizes far too late when he's made a colossal mistake. Rhule, Hurney 2.0, Frank, Fitts. It just feel like just another log on the bonfire Dave started when he bought this team. 

[strato]

1 hour ago, Mage said:

Acknowledging that we aren't a good team vs actively rooting for them to get destroyed and not make the playoffs are two entirely different things.

Yes, Panthers aren't good.  Yes, we likely won't go far in the playoffs.  But why would you rather see your favorite team not even have the opportunity?  Who is to say we have another chance at making the playoffs for the next 10 years?  Jets haven't made the playoffs since 2010! Think about that.  

All of you keep focusing on unknowns and whatnot.  Here is the biggest unknown: we don't know when we will have another chance.  It could be 2035.  It could be 2040.  Let that sink in for a moment.

Yet, instead of wanting to capitalize on the opportunity, you want to see the team get beat down.  And for what?  Because MAYBE we move on from Bryce Young?  And what will you do if that doesn't happen anyway?  What would we have gained from missing the playoffs then?

And look, I'm not trying to sound holier-than-thou.  Not trying to demean you as a fan or anything like that.  But just try to enjoy the moment because it could be a long time, as sad it sounds, before we are in this position again.  You just don't know.  And if you don't believe me, go find a Jets fan.  Go find a Browns fan.  Go find a Lions fan from the mid 90s-2010s.  Go find a Dolphins fan. 

To your point of the unknowable future.. being lapped by NO on the QB hunt is really disturbing to me. Swept too. 
Absolutely we could be on the outside looking in, in the future. 

So I say Win and get the playoff game. I am expecting it given the pattern this year. 

But if I had assurances that Bryce would be gone if we lost Sunday, where do I sign up? I mean, talk about addition by subtraction… boom. 

[Mage]

17 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

The question wasn't about knowing the future. It was to ascertain if you could see the logic behind the question. Short term pain of missing the playoffs for a season for the long term gain of perpetual contender. 

But this is just illogical.  We haven't made the playoffs since 2017 and it has done nothing to get us any closer to being a contender.  Like how could losing on Saturday possibly increase our chances of being a perpetual contender?  We still need to find a long-term answer at QB, and have we not seen how difficult that is?

All your concerns are just conjecture-based.  You don't know what the FO is thinking.  You don't know if any moves in the offseason will be difference based off us making the playoffs vs not.  For all you know, Bryce could play like crap this week, we lose by 30, and he's still the starting QB in 2026. 

And if the team is as committed to Bryce as some of you claim they are, then one week isn't going to change that.

Edited 4 hours ago by Mage

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I think most of us aren't really Bryce haters as called but more so really confused and ticked off at this FO and it's behavior surrounding the QB room. The things they've done look like Bryce is being protected, shielded, whatever you want to call it, and that's coming from only one person, Tepper. He made the pick and he recognizes far too late when he's made a colossal mistake. Rhule, Hurney 2.0, Frank, Fitts. It just feel like just another log on the bonfire Dave started when he bought this team. 

Agreed. I mean, how much more evidence does one need? He has made extremely marginal improvements over a three year starting career. Even the "best of Bryce" at the end of last year was still below league average. So, if that's what we are ultimately chasing....what is the goal here? Is it to make the franchise better long term or prove that your chosen one is a franchise QB by just stubbornly refusing to accept anything otherwise?

This whole situation stinks because I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel, no matter what happens with the team itself. They seem to believe Bryce is the guy and that's just what it is.

So....fug it....let's at least win the division. Hell, it will be fun to needle the Saints, Falcons and Bucs fans that they couldn't even get past a Bryce Young led team. 

Edited 4 hours ago by kungfoodude

[Jackie Lee]

10 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I think most of us aren't really Bryce haters as called but more so really confused and ticked off at this FO and it's behavior surrounding the QB room. The things they've done look like Bryce is being protected, shielded, whatever you want to call it, and that's coming from only one person, Tepper. He made the pick and he recognizes far too late when he's made a colossal mistake. Rhule, Hurney 2.0, Frank, Fitts. It just feel like just another log on the bonfire Dave started when he bought this team. 

Correct. When we watched Malik light it up the other day, Stafford truly launch it to try and win that game last night, plenty of more examples of that level of talent. Then we get a TE sneak because BY can't do it, we get check downs at the line of scrimmage instead of hail mary's, etc. It just seems crazy to the majority of us that you would limit your playbook so much because they have too much pride to admit that they screwed up on that massive trade up to get a "point guard", and then be too embarrassed or stubborn to actually give him any real competition in the qb room because they know if we had Malik level talent sitting on the bench Bryce would get boo'd off the field 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

But this is just illogical.  We haven't made the playoffs since 2017 and it has done nothing to get us any closer to being a contender.  Like how could losing on Saturday possibly increase our chances of being a perpetual contender?  We still need to find a long-term answer at QB, and have we not seen how difficult that is?

All your concerns are just conjecture-based.  You don't know what the FO is thinking.  You don't know if any moves in the offseason will be difference based off us making the playoffs vs not.  For all you know, Bryce could play like crap this week, we lose by 30, and he's still the starting QB in 2026. 

It's not illogical. Say we make the playoffs, one and done, Bryce gets his 5 year extension, yay team. We get the same Bryce, but start losing parts because of that 50m contract and all those close games we won even back out like they usually do. We're back to 5 to 7 wins for the next 4 or 5 years because one feel good game made our FO do something really stupid, AGAIN. 

If losing Saturday gets Bryce out of the building, some like me view that as a long term win. He is not a franchise QB. Our offense is crippled by his limitations. He's UDFA QB production that's being given more chances than he's deserved based on draft position. Getting him out of the building is a win. Unfortunately, I don't see an avenue of winning playoff games that doesn't keep Bryce in the building. 

I want long term success for this team. I think the biggest problem for us is Tepper chose Bryce to lead this team and as long as there is any sliver of hope he made the right choice, even with mountains of evidence to the contrary, he'll hang on because "he knew it".

You asked how can anyone root for the Panthers to lose? 

I ask, how can you root for them to win if winning likely means 5 more years of Bryce Young as your QB? 

This isn't a fan problem, it's a FO problem, and we have a history of FO yes men doing very stupid things. 

[CRA]

Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

It's not illogical. Say we make the playoffs, one and done, Bryce gets his 5 year extension, yay team. We get the same Bryce, but start losing parts because of that 50m contract and all those close games we won even back out like they usually do. We're back to 5 to 7 wins for the next 4 or 5 years because one feel good game made our FO do something really stupid, AGAIN. 

 

Bryce gives backup caliber production behind the highest paid OL in the NFL.   Now, pay Bryce....and you start having to actually do with the roster what you claimed he would provide by drafting him (save money on offense). 

We can't part w/ this dude soon enough.  But you can't predict the folks at BOA