Someone's not gonna be happy

[Navy_football]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Let's not assume that standing pat would have resulted in a sudden spurge in good decision making. Don't forget who was making all those roster calls at the time. Bryce or not, we would have fuged it up in some way because we had idiots at the helm. We may still yet.

Also, it's easy to say we can't get in the habit of switching QB's like that but there are also plenty of situations where that flip was the correct decision. Richardson to Jones, Rosen to Murray, Fields to Williams, Lance to Purdy(technically some nuance to this), etc.

There is no real danger of Bryce leaving and suddenly becoming an elite QB. We all do know this, no matter how big of a Bryce stan you may be. His ceiling is middling game manager. So there isn't some crazy risk of moving on.

No way they pass on Jalen Carter at 9. That was a Star Lotulelei opportunity. Now every other pick is definitely subject to be screwed. 

As for those QB replacements, if we can find a top 6 draft pick that'll come in to replace BY for the cheap, that's different than paying too much for a 3rd rounder that's never done anything. If Bryce earns us a top 5 pick again, then we should definitely consider replacing him if our guy is available when we're on the clock. And still. I can't say for certain what Bryce will be. You're more confident than I am in terms of BY's final product. I think the team still doesn't have a strong receiving group. Though in a year or 2, this group could be really good. They're just young right now and make a lot of young player mistakes. A player like BY doesn't do well with that. He's been most productive with reliable guys that are where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there - even older guys like Thielen and Moore. Carolina really needs a guy like that, that runs a sub 4.5. Most NFL teams have at least one. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

No way they pass on Jalen Carter at 9. That was a Star Lotulelei opportunity. Now every other pick is definitely subject to be screwed. 

As for those QB replacements, if we can find a top 6 draft pick that'll come in to replace BY for the cheap, that's different than paying too much for a 3rd rounder that's never done anything. If Bryce earns us a top 5 pick again, then we should definitely consider replacing him if our guy is available when we're on the clock. And still. I can't say for certain what Bryce will be. You're more confident than I am in terms of BY's final product. I think the team still doesn't have a strong receiving group. Though in a year or 2, this group could be really good. They're just young right now and make a lot of young player mistakes. A player like BY doesn't do well with that. He's been most productive with reliable guys that are where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there - even older guys like Thielen and Moore. Carolina really needs a guy like that, that runs a sub 4.5. Most NFL teams have at least one. 

Buddy, look at the litany of horrific draft mistakes that were made from that era. Assuming a "no-brainer" pick is made by us is pure insanity. There is a reason Fitterer is far and away the worst GM this franchise has ever had.

I am confused about the bolded statement. What do you mean "find a top 6 draft pick for cheap" versus "paying too much for a 3rd rounder." These seem to be incongruent statements. 

I am very sure about Bryce because he has pretty conclusively proven what he is and what his limitations will always be. I don't think his mindset will ever change enough to fix that.

We do have a couple of sub 4.5 WR's. Horn Jr. and.....lol....XL. This is why I don't get too hyperfocused on 40 times. Doesn't mean I don't want speedsters but if you look at the top 5 40 time guys at every combine you don't that often see them being top WR's. 

[kungfoodude]

40 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

I'd like to hear, I think this stuff is interesting to see what others think and then compare to my opinion. Electro seems to think it's a psycho analysis false flag operation but most of us are just message board dudes bored at work

I will work on that now and post it.

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

There are better short term options available than Bryce, however. He is also a short term player.

He is a short player. 

 

This extension candidate sentiment is maddening. They either haven't watched and/or analyzed stats, much less advanced stats, or they just don't care if the franchise continues to fail. 

I'll be generous and give Bryce one extra virtual win because of awful refereeing. 9-8 after three ******* seasons. What's his career W-L record? Even if we throw out his rookie year, what's his record? Hell, mediocrity is looking like something to aspire to after three damned seasons. Are these people daft? Is our FO that stupid as well? Good grief!

[Navy_football]

12 minutes ago, strato said:

Agree totally. We have fuged ourselves post Rivera on continuity. Continuity is a highly regard pillar of sustained success IMO. Lack of it, very detrimental to the same. 

 But a short term QB change to hold the line while you find another guy is not doing that. 

This thing with Bryce, now, is moving into the territory of the ultimatum the long time girlfriends give. 
To me Bryce is the girl sitting around the house in sweats and going to bed with face cream and a hair net.  The one you thought was hot and you move in together and it ain’t what you thought it would be. And now she wants that ring. 
It’s on you if you do it. 
 

Love the analogy. Though I wouldn't marry someone for looks alone, if she looks good with sweats and a hairnet, she can get wifed up. That and she isn't bat ish crazy. Don't ever marry bat ish crazy. You'll have bat ish crazy kids too. Trust the old guy. 

Honestly Bryce is not in a position to make ultimatums. He just isn't. His case his unique and he knows it. So does his agent. We've seen QBs gamble on themselves before. Some have won. Some have lost. None have forced the team's hand if they have never put up numbers that demand it. 

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Buddy, look at the litany of horrific draft mistakes that were made from that era. Assuming a "no-brainer" pick is made by us is pure insanity. There is a reason Fitterer is far and away the worst GM this franchise has ever had.

I am confused about the bolded statement. What do you mean "find a top 6 draft pick for cheap" versus "paying too much for a 3rd rounder." These seem to be incongruent statements. 

I am very sure about Bryce because he has pretty conclusively proven what he is and what his limitations will always be. I don't think his mindset will ever change enough to fix that.

We do have a couple of sub 4.5 WR's. Horn Jr. and.....lol....XL. This is why I don't get too hyperfocused on 40 times. Doesn't mean I don't want speedsters but if you look at the top 5 40 time guys at every combine you don't that often see them being top WR's. 

The QB replacements you named were #6 in the draft, #1, #1 and Mr. Irrelevant. i just ignored Mr. Irrelevant as he's an outlier to ever even make a team. Malik was a 3rd rounder and I wouldn't pay a lot of money to him. I'd probably be more open to the higher drafted guy that has shown me something in his career. And if Bryce earns a top 5 (or #1) pick, then that should be in play for his replacement. 

As for WRs, I agree. Speed doesn't mean good. Most teams have a good player like Thielen and Moore that can also run sub 4.5. That isn't the fastest guy by any stretch but it's fast enough to pressure a DB if he's a good route runner. A good CB will just sit on a guy that runs a 4.57. He ain't worried about him running by him. Horn might be a guy but he can't get on the field. XL? Well. I'm not hopeful for my fellow South Carolinian. 

 

[dep]

3 hours ago, electro's horse said:

He doesn’t want either. He’s using a rhetorical device called a thought terminating cliche. An example of this would be any time someone says something like “well it doesn’t matter no one will do <thing being argued about>.”

he’s not actually interested in debate about this; he wants to nitpick specifics from a list of options that are unknown as you pointed out. Then he’ll just burden of proof you to death. The person most famous for this kind of arguing ended up exsanguinated from a hole in his neck, cucked before his body got cold.

the correct answer of course to “who specifically,” based on the past three years, is basically anyone that steps on the field.

Why speculate about who specifically the player is when we’ve seen it can be Phillip rivers, Russell Wilson, or Daniel jones.

Just get literally anyone. 

[*FreeFua*]

The 5th year option is a no brainer 

Bryce is only 24 years old. A lot of QB’s start coming into their own around the 25-27 age range assuming the situation around them isn’t a complete dumpster fire. 

Some of this falls on Canales to understand the strengths and weaknesses with Young’s game and call plays accordingly 

[strato]

8 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Love the analogy. Though I wouldn't marry someone for looks alone, if she looks good with sweats and a hairnet, she can get wifed up. That and she isn't bat ish crazy. Don't ever marry bat ish crazy. You'll have bat ish crazy kids too. Trust the old guy. 

Honestly Bryce is not in a position to make ultimatums. He just isn't. His case his unique and he knows it. So does his agent. We've seen QBs gamble on themselves before. Some have won. Some have lost. None have forced the team's hand if they have never put up numbers that demand it. 

His agent will likely not see it that way and I am afraid the team won’t want to rock the boat.
Like I said somewhere else, if he really rises to the playoff occasion I am okay with giving him the job next year and if he really kills it I would begrudgingly accept the 5th year. 
 

But that is what this whole year has been about and it has been up and down and a couple of excellent games and then poverty again. Purgatory where you don’t have certainty. 
 

It is no secret that I have never had any faith in him, it is a very tough sell. 

[mrcompletely11]

10 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

The 5th year option is a no brainer 

Bryce is only 24 years old. A lot of QB’s start coming into their own around the 25-27 age range assuming the situation around them isn’t a complete dumpster fire. 

Some of this falls on Canales to understand the strengths and weaknesses with Young’s game and call plays accordingly 

Do you think Bryce and his agent will go into 2027 with no contract?

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

The 5th year option is a no brainer 

Bryce is only 24 years old. A lot of QB’s start coming into their own around the 25-27 age range assuming the situation around them isn’t a complete dumpster fire. 

Some of this falls on Canales to understand the strengths and weaknesses with Young’s game and call plays accordingly 

this train of thought selectively ignores that Bryce is a literal physical anomaly in the NFL though.  No amount of time will change that.

[CBDellinger]

The 5th year option jus gives them a little more time to make their decision and figure out the position going forward.  The idea that it means hes def gonna get a extension is asinine.

[CBDellinger]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Do you think Bryce and his agent will go into 2027 with no contract?

cmon man... if the team doesnt give him one then thats what they will have to do.  If he wants to sit he can and he will be in the same spot the next year. 

just cause you say its never happened doesnt mean it cant or wont.

 

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, CBDellinger said:

cmon man... if the team doesnt give him one then thats what they will have to do.  If he wants to sit he can and he will be in the same spot the next year. 

just cause you say its never happened doesnt mean it cant or wont.

 

 

 

I'll go with the odds over hypothetical situations