Wild Card QB Performance Rankings

[cranky]

14 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Horn wasn't even a legit receiver on the team all year.  It makes no sense and neither does anything you said.

Saying Horn caught a 4th down pass earlier in the season doesn't make sense to you? 

I'm not trying to be arguementative, I just don't think you are being fair to Horn.

Put it this way, if you were to say to Horn, "I would have rather they had throw an interception to TMac or Cooker than have passed it to you" you don't think he wouldn't take that as an insult?

[PNW_PantherMan]

10 minutes ago, cranky said:

Saying Horn caught a 4th down pass earlier in the season doesn't make sense to you? 

I'm not trying to be arguementative, I just don't think you are being fair to Horn.

Put it this way, if you were to say to Horn, "I would have rather they had throw an interception to TMac or Cooker than have passed it to you" you don't think he wouldn't take that as an insult?

How are Horns feelings relevant?  It’s deflecting from the reality that for whatever reason nothing went the way of the only 2 productive receivers on the last 4 passes.

[cranky]

Just now, PNW_PantherMan said:

How are Horns feelings relevant?  It’s deflecting from the reality that for whatever reason nothing went the way of the only 2 productive receivers on the last 4 passes.

I agree that it is disapponting that nothing went their way on the first three downs and I do not know if it's because of the play calling, the pressure on Bryce or Bryce just missed them. I just think the last call was a good call. Horn got open and the pass was there. He just dropped it. Terrible time for his first drop of the season but again, he had made a 4th down catch earlier so there was no reason to think he couldn't scatch it. 

[strato]

35 minutes ago, cranky said:

I agree that it is disapponting that nothing went their way on the first three downs and I do not know if it's because of the play calling, the pressure on Bryce or Bryce just missed them. I just think the last call was a good call. Horn got open and the pass was there. He just dropped it. Terrible time for his first drop of the season but again, he had made a 4th down catch earlier so there was no reason to think he couldn't scatch it. 

Well since I am so biased, why don’t you tell us what he has to do to earn the trust of everyone that doubts him?

If you say he has already done it, we really will never agree. 

 

[cranky]

12 minutes ago, strato said:

Well since I am so biased, why don’t you tell us what he has to do to earn the trust of everyone that doubts him?

If you say he has already done it, we really will never agree. 

 

I can't tell you what other's expect from him before they will start believing in him. I think for some, they will never be able to overcome his size. I think that is the fundemental problem for them which means they will never be happy with him behind center. For others, it seems he will have to be in the top 10% in pretty much every catagory and do that all seaon for them to start believing in him. Not everyone of course. There are people on this board that, while have doubts, can still acknowledge his good plays and are willing to give him another season. Those folks I would assume just want consistency - and wins.

I could be off on all the above but that's kind of how I see it.

And while you didn't ask, I will say I'm glad they picked up his 5th year option. He earned it. I do not think he should be signed to a long term contract yet. I do think he will develope in a franchise QB and will get the Panthers back into the playoffs and win them but I know I could be wrong. Next year will be the big test. If the offense continues to improve and they get back to the playoffs because of the offense, it will be time to sign him long term. If it's a repeat of this year, then it's time to look elsewhere for a QB. Like I said though, I believe he can be the guy so would be surprised if he doesn't make it. 

 

[electro's horse]

Stop engaging with cranky please 

[mrcompletely11]

11 hours ago, cranky said:

I could be off on all the above but that's kind of how I see it.

 

 

You are.  Completely.

 

Them, They, Those etc.   When you continue to loop all the people that are not satisfied with Bryce into some hate mongering group you lose credibility.

[CRA]

11 hours ago, cranky said:

I can't tell you what other's expect from him before they will start believing in him. I think for some, they will never be able to overcome his size. I think that is the fundemental problem for them which means they will never be happy with him behind center. . 

 

I generally start w/ his sub par offensive production, inability to threaten the entire field like you would hope a franchise QB has the ability of in his backpocket.....and then get into his unicorn size. 

how consistently below average and weak our offense has been under his direction (every season) IS the starting point of the Bryce "haters" convo. 

I mean, take a Caleb Williams and a Bryce Young.  Forget draft status (despite it being identical)......they are world's apart if you just look at them as NFL only prospects.   They are basically Arnold and Danny from the movie twins.   Bryce basically is a likeable human and Caleb has all the other traits. 

[Navy_football]

12 hours ago, cranky said:

I agree that it is disapponting that nothing went their way on the first three downs and I do not know if it's because of the play calling, the pressure on Bryce or Bryce just missed them. I just think the last call was a good call. Horn got open and the pass was there. He just dropped it. Terrible time for his first drop of the season but again, he had made a 4th down catch earlier so there was no reason to think he couldn't scatch it. 

Horn was open on the first play but Bryce was trying to get the ball to Coker.

First play the Rams were in cover 1 with a robber that did a great job of taking Coker and TMac away. Pressure got to the QB late as Moton was pushed on top of Bryce and he ended up throwing it away. Horn was open early underneath. Exactly what you're looking for here and he should have thrown to Horn. Maybe could have had Coker or TMac run the dig there instead, because the robber played both their routes perfectly taking them out of the equation. Throw away. 

Second play the Rams are in cover 3. Yosh gives up immediate pressure. Coker and TMac were open but Bryce was already escaping the pocket and immediately turned into a scramble drill. No WR got open after that. So had to throw the ball away.

Third play the Rams were back into Cover 1 with the robber. Ball is thrown to Horn but he was held by his defender and couldn't get to the ball. Perfect pass. Perfect. DPI or defensive holding should have been called. 

Fourth play the Rams are back in Cover 1 no robber this time. TMac and Coker are running deep routes again. Jimmy pops open on the dig again with his man trailing. It's the right read. Good pass. Not perfect, but plenty good enough. Horn  loses focus and drops it. 

No one was really schemed open in any of those plays. The second play was the only one that TMac and Coker were open, but the immediate pressure took the QB off his spot where he had to escape the pocket. I really don't know when he could have forced it to Coker or TMac. Maybe the last play. Deep safety was shading TMac. Coker had 1 on 1 running a fly, but the CB stayed on top the entire time. Maybe a deep back shoulder attempt. But Jimmy was open for the first. 

[cranky]

2 hours ago, Navy_football said:

Horn was open on the first play but Bryce was trying to get the ball to Coker.

First play the Rams were in cover 1 with a robber that did a great job of taking Coker and TMac away. Pressure got to the QB late as Moton was pushed on top of Bryce and he ended up throwing it away. Horn was open early underneath. Exactly what you're looking for here and he should have thrown to Horn. Maybe could have had Coker or TMac run the dig there instead, because the robber played both their routes perfectly taking them out of the equation. Throw away. 

Second play the Rams are in cover 3. Yosh gives up immediate pressure. Coker and TMac were open but Bryce was already escaping the pocket and immediately turned into a scramble drill. No WR got open after that. So had to throw the ball away.

Third play the Rams were back into Cover 1 with the robber. Ball is thrown to Horn but he was held by his defender and couldn't get to the ball. Perfect pass. Perfect. DPI or defensive holding should have been called. 

Fourth play the Rams are back in Cover 1 no robber this time. TMac and Coker are running deep routes again. Jimmy pops open on the dig again with his man trailing. It's the right read. Good pass. Not perfect, but plenty good enough. Horn  loses focus and drops it. 

No one was really schemed open in any of those plays. The second play was the only one that TMac and Coker were open, but the immediate pressure took the QB off his spot where he had to escape the pocket. I really don't know when he could have forced it to Coker or TMac. Maybe the last play. Deep safety was shading TMac. Coker had 1 on 1 running a fly, but the CB stayed on top the entire time. Maybe a deep back shoulder attempt. But Jimmy was open for the first. 

Like I said, I think the 4th was a good call and good play. Should have been a completion.

Betweeen the Saints with game bad call on TMac and the Buccs game with bad calls swinging 6 points their way, I am not surprised they didn't get that holding call. The Panthers have just been on the wrong side of calls for most of the season for whatever reason.

[cranky]

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

You are.  Completely.

 

Them, They, Those etc.   When you continue to loop all the people that are not satisfied with Bryce into some hate mongering group you lose credibility.

I said there are three groups. How is that looping everyone together?

[strato]

17 hours ago, cranky said:

I can't tell you what other's expect from him before they will start believing in him. I think for some, they will never be able to overcome his size. I think that is the fundemental problem for them which means they will never be happy with him behind center. For others, it seems he will have to be in the top 10% in pretty much every catagory and do that all seaon for them to start believing in him. Not everyone of course. There are people on this board that, while have doubts, can still acknowledge his good plays and are willing to give him another season. Those folks I would assume just want consistency - and wins.

I could be off on all the above but that's kind of how I see it.

And while you didn't ask, I will say I'm glad they picked up his 5th year option. He earned it. I do not think he should be signed to a long term contract yet. I do think he will develope in a franchise QB and will get the Panthers back into the playoffs and win them but I know I could be wrong. Next year will be the big test. If the offense continues to improve and they get back to the playoffs because of the offense, it will be time to sign him long term. If it's a repeat of this year, then it's time to look elsewhere for a QB. Like I said though, I believe he can be the guy so would be surprised if he doesn't make it. 

 

Thanks I’ll respond in some kind of detail regarding a few points when I can find the time to better compose my thoughts. Maybe later tonight. 

Edited January 16 by strato

[electro's horse]

Either cranky is just trolling us and he’s literally an artist or he has schizophrenia spectrum disorder and needs to go back on his clozaril. 

[PantherChris]

7 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

You are.  Completely.

 

Them, They, Those etc.   When you continue to loop all the people that are not satisfied with Bryce into some hate mongering group you lose credibility.

Not sure what he said but, given my (very low) expectations for Bryce in this game he played very well   honestly the first game I've seen that mattered for more than moral were he consistently went down feild.