Off Season topic: What Panthers question do you have that you know will never be answered?

[Joe Bear]

Frank Reich seems like a cool guy, but to play the "it wasn't his fault, he just stopped trying" card for Reich when guys like Coker, Bryce, hell even T-Mac get "he just doesn't show the effort," I don't get it.

[Joe Bear]

On 5/14/2026 at 2:10 PM, OneBadCat said:

Why didn't we give Matt Moore a real chance? He was obviously better than Clausen.

Matt Moore had a real chance. He was supposed to start in 2010. Fox had no interest in playing Clausen, but Moore threw 3 picks in Week 1 and proceeded to also look terrible in Week 2.

[App Panther]

Why didn’t we double team Von Miller.

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, App Panther said:

Why didn’t we double team Von Miller.

Because Wade Phillips was playing chess vs. Shula's checkers. Shula very predictably countered the opposing D having success in the pass rush by keeping extra blockers in so that he could still run his same slow developing downfield route stuff. Phillips knowing we had no receivers he was scared of vs. his secondary and running primarily man coverage countered this with "blue dog" blitzing. Essentially if the man you're supposed to cover stays in to block you blitz to nullify the extra blocker, now it's back to hat on a hat football and Von Miller vs. Mike Remmers one on one is a nightmare. Shula had no plan C. There was no counter to the counter. We were cooked at that point. Screens? Chip and release routes from the extra blockers staying in to take advantage of the guy coming in hot on a blitz? Quick slants or drags to get the ball out faster? Nope. None of that. The guy was a fuging moron.

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 hours ago, Joe Bear said:

Frank Reich seems like a cool guy, but to play the "it wasn't his fault, he just stopped trying" card for Reich when guys like Coker, Bryce, hell even T-Mac get "he just doesn't show the effort," I don't get it.

JMO, but I think the difference is one thing to be a player and be drafted to a team vs being hired as a coach, told you're going to be put in charge of getting your guy, and having the owner draft his guy instead.

Stroud fit Frank's offensive style better than Bryce could, plus, it was pretty obvious Bryce wasn't ready when he was named starter. Frank was being told how to run his team by a guy that didn't know the first thing about football. It's a dynamic that was never going to work. It creates a miserable work environment and it was clearly evident. That's why I think Frank lost interest. 

Now this is all my opinion and I have no proof of it other than watching his body language before and after the draft. 

[BEASTfromdaEAST]

40 minutes ago, App Panther said:

Why didn’t we double team Von Miller.

Why didnt we change our game plan in 2015?

Oh yeah Shula and Rivera are morons, sorry answered my own question.

[OldhamA]

55 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Because Wade Phillips was playing chess vs. Shula's checkers. Shula very predictably countered the opposing D having success in the pass rush by keeping extra blockers in so that he could still run his same slow developing downfield route stuff. Phillips knowing we had no receivers he was scared of vs. his secondary and running primarily man coverage countered this with "blue dog" blitzing. Essentially if the man you're supposed to cover stays in to block you blitz to nullify the extra blocker, now it's back to hat on a hat football and Von Miller vs. Mike Remmers one on one is a nightmare. Shula had no plan C. There was no counter to the counter. We were cooked at that point. Screens? Chip and release routes from the extra blockers staying in to take advantage of the guy coming in hot on a blitz? Quick slants or drags to get the ball out faster? Nope. None of that. The guy was a fuging moron.

Green Dog.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

Green Dog.

Sorry, everything in sports is blue to me. Panthers, Tar Heels, it's gotta be blue. LOL

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Sorry, everything in sports is blue to me. Panthers, Tar Heels, it's gotta be blue. LOL

I just know because it's burned into my memory, like X-Clown. 

[beo]

I will never get over how much of Cam's prime was wasted by Mike Shula. People say that he should've doubled Von but that's pretty much what he tried to do, the Broncos sent more guys in response to it as LG's post pointed out and then he just never adjusted. Turtling up in max protect actually played into Denver's hands because it gave Cam less places to go with the ball.

We had Philly Brown and Ted Ginn Jr trying to beat Chris Harris and Aqib Talib on long-developing routes against the best pass rush arguably of the decade, it was just downright comedic. What he should have done was chip Von with a TE and putting more WRs on the field, running quick plays designed to get the ball out as fast as possible. But Shula's passing scheme was woefully out of date, designed around taking long-developing deep shots rather than efficient chain-moving plays. We asked Cam to attempt passes harder than probably any other QB in the league at that time on a play to play basis outside of Rodgers under late stage McCarthy.

The instant that Cam got something resembling a competent offensive coordinator in Norv Turner his completion percentage and accuracy in the short game skyrocketed, and if not for injury the false narrative about him being an inaccurate thrower would have likely died out. Shula went 15-1 with the #1 ranked offense in the league and didn't get a single head coach interview. Literally everyone in the league knew he was riding Cam's coattails except for Ron and JR, it's sickening.

Edited Sunday at 01:13 AM by beo

[LinvilleGorge]

17 minutes ago, beo said:

I will never get over how much of Cam's prime was wasted by Mike Shula. People say that he should've doubled Von but that's pretty much what he tried to do, the Broncos sent more guys in response to it as LG's post pointed out and then he just never adjusted. Turtling up in max protect actually played into Denver's hands because it gave Cam less places to go with the ball.

We had Philly Brown and Ted Ginn Jr trying to beat Chris Harris and Aqib Talib on long-developing routes against the best pass rush arguably of the decade, it was just downright comedic. What he should have done was chip Von with a TE and putting more WRs on the field, running quick plays designed to get the ball out as fast as possible. But Shula's passing scheme was woefully out of date, designed around taking long-developing deep shots rather than efficient chain-moving plays. We asked Cam to attempt passes harder than probably any other QB in the league at that time on a play to play basis outside of Rodgers under late stage McCarthy.

The instant that Cam got something resembling a competent offensive coordinator in Norv Turner his completion percentage and accuracy in the short game skyrocketed, and if not for injury the false narrative about him being an inaccurate thrower would have likely died out. Shula went 15-1 with the #1 ranked offense in the league and didn't get a single head coach interview. Literally everyone in the league knew he was riding Cam's coattails except for Ron and JR, it's sickening.

Cam had his most efficient passing seasons under Norv after his shoulder was trashed. Meanwhile, Shula never got another NFL OC job. He finally got a college OC job at South Carolina and got his ass fired mid-season because he was making a presumed 1st round QB look like a guy who wouldn't get drafted. 

I give credit to Shula for Cam's rookie season and creating an offense that maximized his skills at that point at the NFL level. But Shula never evolved his offense beyond that. I desperately wish we would've seen a Norv Turner tyor coordinating the offense for Cam starting in year two or three but we let Shula ride him into the dirt.

[strato]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Cam had his most efficient passing seasons under Norv after his shoulder was trashed. Meanwhile, Shula never got another NFL OC job. He finally got a college OC job at South Carolina and got his ass fired mid-season because he was making a presumed 1st round QB look like a guy who wouldn't get drafted. 

I give credit to Shula for Cam's rookie season and creating an offense that maximized his skills at that point at the NFL level. But Shula never evolved his offense beyond that. I desperately wish we would've seen a Norv Turner tyor coordinating the offense for Cam starting in year two or three but we let Shula ride him into the dirt.

Chudzinzki was OC in 2011 and 2012.  
I guess Shula was QB coach? Is that why he gets credit?  
 

And fwiw Sellers is sort of a Cam style guy and I bet Shula got that job off of coaching Cam. 

Edited Sunday at 01:46 AM by strato

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, strato said:

Chudzinzki was OC in 2011 and 2012.  
I guess Shula was QB coach? Is that why he gets credit?  
 

And fwiw Sellers is sort of a Cam style guy and I bet Shula got that job off of coaching Cam. 

Yeah, Shula was the QB coach. I honestly completely forgot about Chud. When he took the Browns job we should've swung big for an OC instead of just promoting Shula.

Yes, I guarantee Shula leveraged his "success" with Cam to get that job and just proved that yeah, it was Cam not Shula. That bum got carried for years by a generational talent.

[Jackie Lee]

6 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

JMO, but I think the difference is one thing to be a player and be drafted to a team vs being hired as a coach, told you're going to be put in charge of getting your guy, and having the owner draft his guy instead.

Stroud fit Frank's offensive style better than Bryce could, plus, it was pretty obvious Bryce wasn't ready when he was named starter. Frank was being told how to run his team by a guy that didn't know the first thing about football. It's a dynamic that was never going to work. It creates a miserable work environment and it was clearly evident. That's why I think Frank lost interest. 

Now this is all my opinion and I have no proof of it other than watching his body language before and after the draft. 

I know the Colts were a mess with their qb situation, but I think it's a good general rule to not hire a head coach In January that just got fired from a different head coaching job two months earlier. Total David Tepper 180 from Rhule, and you literally had the guys playing hard for Wilks who just needed some young coordinators to help modernize the on the field stuff.