To put our suckyness into perspective

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

seriously julius peppers and kris jenkins on the same line. witherspoon and a relatively healthy morgan at linebacker and mike minter behind them looking to lay the wood. also a very deep d-line rotation with guys two and three deep who would be day one starters on this team.

re-fuging-diculous

[CRA]

2003 - MUCH better D

2003 - MUCH better ST

2003 - more well rounded offense. Less explosive and without as much raw talent.

But the current team isn't better than 2003 roster

[SIGCHI222]

Just posting to let everyone know I have not abandoned ship and to let Dwan's stats get out there. I waited a long time to get my adopt-a sig.

Carry on.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

2003 was better at WR2. OL i'd call a wash especially with kalil out although on paper this line should have been better than what we had to work with in 2003. offensive playcalling was rudimentary but at the very least it wasn't just completely poo-stupid like what we're being treated to now.

[Awesomeness!!]

See, our defense was very much the same in 2001 as it was in 2002 and 2003, which was my point. Fox took an awful team, and turned them around. Rivera has a talented team, and..we may be picking first this year in the draft..

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

See, our defense was very much the same in 2001 as it was in 2002 and 2003, which was my point. Fox took an awful team, and turned them around. Rivera has a talented team, and..we may be picking first this year in the draft..

yeah i'm sure kris jenkins, julius peppers, and dan morgan would have never been impact players if it wasn't for fox "coaching them up".

unless you think the best defensive tackle in the league is sitting on our line right now and he just hasn't had good coaching. or maybe he just has untreated sleep apnea.

the talent levels on the 2002/2003 defenses compared to what we have now are just not comparable. not even close. the DLs on at least four of fox's teams (2002, 2003, 2005, 2006) blow ours away. hell you could bench half the starters on those teams and give al wallace, kindal moorehead, and jordan carstens the start and it'd still be true.

[CatMan72]

So and this is interesting because THIS team is way better than any team John Fox ever had here, and he won.

Uh, no.

Fox inherited a much better set of defensive personnel capped off by drafting Peppers... and it's not as if we dominated our opponents in '03 on the way to the SB, we won mostly with last second FG's, hence the "Cardiac Cats" nickname.

[XClown1986]

See, our defense was very much the same in 2001 as it was in 2002 and 2003, which was my point. Fox took an awful team, and turned them around. Rivera has a talented team, and..we may be picking first this year in the draft..

Mike Rucker, Al Wallace, Mike Minter, Dan Morgan, Kris Jenkins, Brentson Buckner, Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, Brad Hoover, John Kasay, and others were all here when Fox got here. In his first year he added to an already stout defense and went 7-9. It took another offseason and draft to fix the offense and go 11-5. He had plenty to work with when he got here and had to just patch up some holes at starter positions with depth being plentiful.

Rivera inherited Steve Smith, Deangelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil, Charles Johnson, Thomas Davis (injured), Chris Gamble, and Jon Beason (injured). Rivera also inherited the #1 overall pick, with no 2nd round pick, no ability to bring in veteran help due to the cap being full from players we overpaid, and lots of holes, with virtually no depth.

Fox was in a much better situation. Rivera is not doing well right now, but I wouldn't argue that Fox could have whipped this team into better shape. Both coaches' forte was defense. Fox inherited a good defense, that eventually became very good with an addition of Julius Peppers and Witherspoon. Rivera inherited bare bones on defense, and only slightly above that on offense, with injuries to 2 leaders at linebacker (Beason was already ailing during the lockout).

I've said this before, it took Fox two years to turn his team around. This team was in a much worse condition when Rivera inherited it. He deserves 3 years to get a fair shake.

[Marguide]

Uh, no.

Fox inherited a much better set of defensive personnel capped off by drafting Peppers... and it's not as if we dominated our opponents in '03 on the way to the SB, we won mostly with last second FG's, hence the "Cardiac Cats" nickname.

You probably already know this, but the use of "Cardiac Cats" was not something coined in the Carolinas. Hell, they were using "Cardiac Cards" back in the 70's with the St. Louis Cardinals, before they moved to Arizona. Arizona still uses it when appropriate, as I would imagine a number of other teams have as well.

Just a bit of trivia to keep the mood light around here.

[rayzor]

plus fox had the benefit of a roided up Oline.

[Icege]

How are people able to say, "Cam would've gotten it on 4th and 1!" and then when they unsuccessfully try for it the next week, the play call itself is bad and we suck?

[leaf]

If Fox had our current secondary, would he have won 7 games ever ?

I'd say maybe, because of the excellent pass rush back then.

[X-Clown]

I'd say maybe, because of the excellent pass rush back then.

And the rulebook that allowed DBs to be more physical

[Delhommey]