Reality and Gruden

[tiger7_88]

7 hours ago, Qu1million said:

Gettles, u POS...this year is on u

This team should be 4-1 right now.

Turnovers, penalties, lack of situational awareness by the HC, lack of any awareness at all by the OC is why we're sitting at 1-4.

Did Gettleman tell all these players to turn the ball over.  Did he make them commit penalties?  Does he force them to constantly miss blocks on go down when breathed on (looking at you Tolbert)?  Does he force Ron to call dumb timeouts (or not call needed timeouts)?  Did he force Brain Dead Shula Son on Rivera?

No?

Then stop being silly.

[Khaki Lackey]

This team should be 4-1 right now.

Turnovers, penalties, lack of situational awareness by the HC, lack of any awareness at all by the OC is why we're sitting at 1-4.

Did Gettleman tell all these players to turn the ball over.  Did he make them commit penalties?  Does he force them to constantly miss blocks on go down when breathed on (looking at you Tolbert)?  Does he force Ron to call dumb timeouts (or not call needed timeouts)?  Did he force Brain Dead Shula Son on Rivera?

No?

Then stop being silly.

Yeah, I don't see how anyone who watched the game last night can blame Gettleman. Yeah, in hindsight, letting Norman go was a mistake, but if he had thrown 36 million at Norman and KK this off season, we might be in the exact same boat (maybe 2-3 instead) and the whole board would be crying way more than they are now.


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[ickmule]

8 hours ago, greghardy'sAK-47 said:

Gruden was showing us reality, before the game even kicked off, when he had on the TV our 3 rookie DBs and pointing out it wasn't just Norman that was gone, but 3 guys that had been in the league for 10+ years a piece in tillman, harper, and finnegan.

That and he was being kind by not totally destroying Shula and our offense. 

This ^^^^^^^^^

You let that amount of vet leadership leave in one off season you get what you have coming to you. I'm not a DG guy after that. He and Rivera can be let go tomorrow and it wouldn't faze me one bit. 

[jtm]

NFL is a game of inches and momentum is everything. Gano makes a FG and DA doesn't throw that late TD last night and this team is 3-2 and we're having a different conversation today. 

 

[jtm]

53 minutes ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Yeah, I don't see how anyone who watched the game last night can blame Gettleman. Yeah, in hindsight, letting Norman go was a mistake, but if he had thrown 36 million at Norman and KK this off season, we might be in the exact same boat (maybe 2-3 instead) and the whole board would be crying way more than they are now.


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KK has been a huge disappointment this year thus far. This team thrives on pressure up the middle and this has been non existent this year. 

I agree with you 100%

[ickmule]

54 minutes ago, jtm said:

KK has been a huge disappointment this year thus far. This team thrives on pressure up the middle and this has been non existent this year. 

I agree with you 100%

To be fair, almost every player on the team has been a disappointment this season. Even Luke looks lost. 

[CPantherKing]

52 minutes ago, ickmule said:

This ^^^^^^^^^

You let that amount of vet leadership leave in one off season you get what you have coming to you. I'm not a DG guy after that. He and Rivera can be let go tomorrow and it wouldn't faze me one bit. 

Gettleman is a do nothing GM. He is completely responsible for the product the Panthers put on the field. You are either getting better or getting worse. It was clear that the offseason sent a message of the Panthers getting worse in 2016 to protect their future for I guess 2018. Isn't that the exact reason why the previous HC and GM were removed from the team? Not it is okay?

Where are these back to back winning seasons Gettleman and JR promised the fans?

Tillman, Allen, Cotchery. Harper, and Norman would have all been glad to stay a Panther for another season. Even in a reserve role. All that leadership cut and replaced with nothing but weakness.

[imminent rogaine]

1 hour ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Yeah, I don't see how anyone who watched the game last night can blame Gettleman. Yeah, in hindsight, letting Norman go was a mistake, but if he had thrown 36 million at Norman and KK this off season, we might be in the exact same boat (maybe 2-3 instead) and the whole board would be crying way more than they are now.


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With you here.. and DG has repeatedly mentioned that he is thinking long-term. We knew our CBs weren't Josh Norman going into this season. Let's look back at this move next year.

The only frustration I am having with DG is DE. Our defense looks like garbage because we didn't address that need. Because of that, we blitz way too often which takes people out of coverage on an already thin back end.

That said, I'd kind of like to see Cash go in as kind of a OLB/Blitzer. He is on this team because of his skill around the LOS. If that is where we are going to send our LBs and Safeties every other play, send him.

[PrimeTimeHeel]

10 hours ago, Qu1million said:

For 4 weeks, in doubt and optimistic for some reason.  Jon Gruden made a statement that was burned and embedded into my brain.  Jon Gruden stated, "...better or worse after the superbowl".  

We are worse in all 4 phases of the game.  It's 1 or 2-3 phases not showing up on gameday.  Coaching is reaching/inconsistent, Defense is so so but 1 game in my opinion, special teams needs work and offense doesn't exist (coaching).  

Front office though....my God, I can judge all day but can't hate for some reason (last year success).  Gettles, u POS...this year is on u and feels like De Ja Vu.  We have to win out and pray for losses to have any hope.  

I hate the fact that we look like another typical statistic in superbowl hangover teams.  Fug U!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Have the exact same team minus one player. A zone CB. Actually, might be a net positive when you add in KB, the rookies, and the other young guys with another year under their belt. 

This debacle is not on DG. 

What we are seeing is zero pass rush, blown assignments, poor pass/run blocking, dumb penalties, dumb turnovers, and bad coaching.

The players and the coaches have regressed. 

Simple as that. 

 

 

[KB_fan]

24 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Tillman, Allen, Cotchery. Harper, and Norman would have all been glad to stay a Panther for another season. Even in a reserve role. All that leadership cut and replaced with nothing but weakness.

Not disagreeing with you on this...

But most of us were NOT complaining at the time when Allen, Cotch & Harper left.  And Tillman probably would just be getting back into shape about now from his torn ACL...  Allen & Tillman weren't even long-term members of the team... it wasn't obvious that they were indispensable.  So truly it just didn't seem inevitable that letting them go would be a problem.  Heck most were HAPPY to see Cotch leave after his SB drops, and most said Harper had gotten too slow.

(Norman of course is a complicated story...)

I did beat the bandwagon hard for Tillman to come back.  Thought we needed vet leadership for the CBs.  Sadly that didn't happen.

Yeah, it looks like losing so much veteran savvy hurt us.  But it's so much easier to see in hindsight.  Team chemistry is not something easy to understand or predict.

[Qu1million]

This team should be 4-1 right now.

Turnovers, penalties, lack of situational awareness by the HC, lack of any awareness at all by the OC is why we're sitting at 1-4.

Did Gettleman tell all these players to turn the ball over.  Did he make them commit penalties?  Does he force them to constantly miss blocks on go down when breathed on (looking at you Tolbert)?  Does he force Ron to call dumb timeouts (or not call needed timeouts)?  Did he force Brain Dead Shula Son on Rivera?

No?

Then stop being silly.

Penalties and turnovers are going to happen. Thing is, we don't have talent to create turnovers...Theives Avenue is an example, they're gone. Gettleman being cheap and not replacing DBs with better talent is on him. Furthermore, activating and deactivating personnel fugs up special teams play. Man I was drunk when I said POS but damn we are 1-4. It is on Gettleman this year, so stop being silly too.

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[CPantherKing]

1 minute ago, KB_fan said:

Norman of course is another story...

But most of us were NOT complaining when Allen, Cotch & Harper left.  And Tillman probably would just be getting back into shape about now from his torn ACL...  Allen & Tillman weren't even long-term members of the team... it wasn't obvious that they were indispensable.  So truly it just didn't seem inevitable that letting them go would be a problem.  Heck most were HAPPY to see Cotch leave after his SB drops, and most said Harper had gotten too slow.

I did beat the bandwagon hard for Tillman to come back.  Thought we needed vet leadership for the CBs.  Sadly that didn't happen.

Yeah, it looks like losing so much veteran savvy hurt us.  But it's so much easier to see in hindsight.  Team chemistry is not something easy to understand or predict.

This is not hindsight. This was staring us in the face all off season. I made it known and others wanted to believe in fantasy and trusting Gettleman. I would have been furious if I were in Rivera or a vet players shoes. They all seemed to drink the Gettleman kool aid with his do nothing approach.

[KB_fan]

25 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

This is not hindsight. This was staring us in the face all off season. I made it known and others wanted to believe in fantasy and trusting Gettleman. I would have been furious if I were in Rivera or a vet players shoes. They all seemed to drink the Gettleman kool aid with his do nothing approach.

Yet, except for CBs, we still do have pretty solid vet leadership in every position group.  While we went "younger" it wasn't like we totally remade the team, especially on offense.  ONLY Cotch is gone on offense, and I don't think you can attribute many of our offensive woes to his departure.

QB: Anderson & Cam

Oline:  Kalil

TE: Greg

RB:  Stew

WR:  Ginn

Dline:  CJ

LBs: Davis

DBs (Safeties):  Coleman

ST: JJ

That's a bunch of experienced leadership at nearly every position. 

Yes, letting the vets go ended up hurting us.  But it's not the only thing.  The players we have SHOULD be able to win much more than they have this year.  That's what's so maddening.  We could have / should have beaten Denver & Minn.  If we had, we probably wouldn't have faced the debacles against ATL & TB ...

[CPantherKing]

Just now, KB_fan said:

Yet, except for CBs, we still do have pretty solid vet leadership in every position group.  While we went "younger" it wasn't like we totally remade the team, especially on offense.  ONLY Cotch is gone on offense, and I don't think you can attribute many of our offensive woes to his departure.

QB: Anderson & Cam

Oline:  Kalil

TE: Greg

RB:  Stew

WR:  Ginn

Dline:  CJ

LBs: Davis

DBs (Safeties):  Coleman

ST: JJ

That's a bunch of experienced leadership at nearly every position. 

Yes, letting the vets go ended up hurting us.  But it's not the only thing.  The players we have SHOULD be able to win much more than they have this year.  That's what's so maddening.  We could have / should have beaten Denver & Minn.  If we had, we probably wouldn't have faced the debacles against ATL & TB ...

How important was Cotchery on 3rd down?

The Panthers completely lost their 3rd and short receiving threat. Seems they though Brown could do it, and they should have known he was too inconsistent for that role.

The problems for offense arise on 3rd down. What do you need on 3rd down to be effective as an offense?

QB - great with Cam

TE - great with Olsen

3rd down RB - this was DeAngelo Williams' role. Stewart is not reliable on 3rd down as a receiving threat. This is now Fozzy, but the team keeps forcing CAP in this spot. Fozzy is okay, but not great.

3rd down WR - a receiver who can get open quickly within the first 10 yards and has consistent hands. Knows how to consistently find the pockets in the defense quickly and come back to the QB when he scrambles. The best one on the team was Steve Smith for a while, and then Cotchery for the past 2 seasons. Now it is Brenton Bersin, and while he is below average at this role, he is still the best option. They never use Bersin. Ginn, Brown, and Funchess have been rotating in this role all season, and it has been ugly and inconsistent.

OT - need at least 1 capable OT who does not need help blocking on 3rd down. You want 2 so the team has more threats on 3rd down. Having 2 to 3 extra blockers in the back field without the option of releasing quick on a route on 3rd down gives the defense the advantage. This is even more glaring against capable speed rushers.

The Panthers with Cam, Stewart, Olsen, KB, Turner, Norwell, Kalil, and Ginn are very capable on 1st and 2nd down. They are extremely capable with 1 yard to go. This combo makes for a dangerous red zone offense.

What they struggle with is 3rd and 4+. They lack the weapons outside of Olsen for a consistent quick intermediate game. So, a defense can easily bracket Olsen for 2 to 3 seconds and aggressively get after Cam in these situations while playing the run to the QB. The defense will have a greater rate of success in these situations because the Panthers lack 3 of the 5 ket components to a consistent 3rd down team. What got them by last season was the threat of Cotchery on 3rd down.