For the Panthers now, and Cam's future, Shula has to go

[PrimeTimeHeel]

7 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Because coverages are often disguised, particularly against us, to try and push the read option decisions by the QB.  Stacking the box against the run often slips back into a zone coverage scheme at the snap and a line up that looks weak in the box can be a running trap. Until the snap, nothing is set in stone.

The question is really, "Are the appropriate players making the right reads and audibling correctly?" When Cam kills the called play and changes it at the line, what is our success rate for runs and passes? Is he (and DA) making the right calls?

Also, someone on that line should be calling protections. Traditionally, it's the center's job to do so and considering Kalil's football IQ, experience and leadership he should be getting the job. On some teams, particularly those driven by a mobile QB, the QB calls the protections. Not sure which we have going here -- I just know it's not working well.

 

 

 

Not buying this. 

Run on spread out D's light in the box. Pass on tight condensed D's heavy in the box. 

A safety 20 yards off the LOS in a 2 high safety look is not gonna be able to fly down in time to stop a 5 yard run. 

 

 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, electro's horse said:

I'm not going to go injury by injury with Cam and say where he got them, but I will say that CTE is going to most likely end up being more common in lineman, and that sub concussive hits are going to be more damaging then the giant kill shots that stand out to people. There isn't enough data yet (for lots of reasons) but that's the way it's likely shaping up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2014/10/17/offensive-linemen-are-the-football-players-most-likely-to-play-while-concussed-new-studies-show/

 

 

And another bit more relevant to Cam.

 

 

 

I think you went a long way to state something I already agreed with. Helmet to Helmet shots are likely to cause problems whether you get a concussion or not. I f Cam is taking head shots all the time then of course he is at high risk. Your contention I'd that every time he runs he is taking head shots and my observations have been he takes as many or more shots to the head as a passer than when he runs. He said many times over the years that he is more likely to get hurt passing because he can't see the shot coming then when he is running and can see them coming. 

[tiger7_88]

3 hours ago, electro's horse said:

I'm not going to go injury by injury with Cam and say where he got them, but I will say that CTE is going to most likely end up being more common in lineman, and that sub concussive hits are going to be more damaging then the giant kill shots that stand out to people. There isn't enough data yet (for lots of reasons) but that's the way it's likely shaping up. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2014/10/17/offensive-linemen-are-the-football-players-most-likely-to-play-while-concussed-new-studies-show/

 

 

And another bit more relevant to Cam.

 

 

 

 

Dude, Mike Shula could run on the field and swing a bat and take out Cam's knees and p55 would make an excuse like "Well, Cam saw Shula coming, he should have moved out of the way of the bat!"

Now the above is sarcasm.  But sometimes I wonder.

[electro's horse]

59 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I think you went a long way to state something I already agreed with. Helmet to Helmet shots are likely to cause problems whether you get a concussion or not. I f Cam is taking head shots all the time then of course he is at high risk. Your contention I'd that every time he runs he is taking head shots and my observations have been he takes as many or more shots to the head as a passer than when he runs. He said many times over the years that he is more likely to get hurt passing because he can't see the shot coming then when he is running and can see them coming. 

right, i agree. 

point im trying to make is there are factors of the offense which a.) aren't very effective anymore (which is another thread) and b.) exposing him to more hits than any other QB, as well as just constantly ending him up at the bottom of the pile. 

The main point is if Shula's offense is predicated around the threat of Cam as a battering ram, then Shula needs to go, because it's naturally going to shorten his career far more than the natural wear and tear of being a pocket passer. That's regardless of efficacy, and I was beating that drum last year as well. 

And just in general and not in response to you, going away from shula's zone read doesn't preclude the panthers from ever using the read again. poo alex smith runs the read. with cam specifically though what you're seeing is defenders are more than happy to let one of our poo running backs get 7 yards or whatever as long as they get a shot at Cam. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

right, i agree. 

point im trying to make is there are factors of the offense which a.) aren't very effective anymore (which is another thread) and b.) exposing him to more hits than any other QB, as well as just constantly ending him up at the bottom of the pile. 

The main point is if Shula's offense is predicated around the threat of Cam as a battering ram, then Shula needs to go, because it's naturally going to shorten his career far more than the natural wear and tear of being a pocket passer. That's regardless of efficacy, and I was beating that drum last year as well. 

And just in general and not in response to you, going away from shula's zone read doesn't preclude the panthers from ever using the read again. poo alex smith runs the read. with cam specifically though what you're seeing is defenders are more than happy to let one of our poo running backs get 7 yards or whatever as long as they get a shot at Cam. 

I would agree that our offense should not be predicated around Cam running many times.  If for no other reason than teams are loading the box and making him pass.  Just like last year where we revamped the running game because KB was out, I suspect we are going to have revamp the passing game to have Cam become more of a pocket passer again. And use power running plays instead of zone running plays.  Cam for his part has to get the ball out quicker like Anderson did and not hold it especially with our poor line protection.  How many times did Anderson get sacked?  0. 

 

[*FreeFua*]

"That's his game," offensive coordinator Mike Shula said. "We'll look at it and we'll talk about it, but part of his game and what makes him so good is that."

http://blackandbluereview.com/mike-shula-panthers-wont-restrict-cam-newtons-running/

 

How any GM doesn't step in and put an end to this is beyond me. The guy is coming off a concussion, he shouldn't be running at all on Sunday. Don't give the smokescreen bs either we all know Shula's too stupid to think of anything like that.

I truly feel bad for Cam at this point. When all is said and done this front office is going to be remembered for destroying what was a once in a generation type of talent. 

 

[electro's horse]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I would agree that our offense should not be predicated around Cam running many times.  If for no other reason than teams are loading the box and making him pass.  Just like last year where we revamped the running game because KB was out, I suspect we are going to have revamp the passing game to have Cam become more of a pocket passer again. And use power running plays instead of zone running plays.  Cam for his part has to get the ball out quicker like Anderson did and not hold it especially with our poor line protection.  How many times did Anderson get sacked?  0. 

 

Now be fair, the bucs were starting guys off the street at defensive line. 

Jase wouldn't have been sacked. 

[UpstatePanther]

On 10/12/2016 at 0:23 AM, Snake said:

Are you kidding me? He doesn't run because Passing Cam Newton is better than running Cam Newton. What makes him great is his arm not legs. You bitch because he is running but yet you want him to run. Brilliant. 

I don't think my comment was "bitching". I don't think I criticized him for running. And in fact, I don't think I criticized Cam at all. My point was directed at Shula for wasting Cam's talent.

And I never said that his running is what made hime great. I choose my words carefully, and I said that Cam doesn't improvise anymore. Part of that is running, but part of it isnt. You cannot tell me that Cam is improvising like he did last year, and especially not as much as he did his rookie year.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Shula is a scapegoat far more

bigger issues then play calling and not being creative....

[Kevin Greene]

9 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Shula is a scapegoat far more

bigger issues then play calling and not being creative....

Please explain.

[Hoenheim]

Cpt sounds like you are downplaying the consistently shitty play-calling. Remember the three runs in a row on the potential game winning drive last game? Throw on the goal line? Many many more examples, if we fans are calling plays before they happen can you imagine how predictable they are to actual nfl coaches and players of other teams? Sure player execution has been terrible but so has the fuging playcalling. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Greene said:

Please explain.

This year alone our killers have been penalties, bad qb play at times, bad qb decisions(holding the ball, throwing questionable ints, ignoring funchess when he's butt naked wide open, ect). Execution has been piss poor this year, can't fault the oc for missed fgs(we have like 3 or 4 this year if I'm correct). This is a guy who has to deal with not having his starting rb a for a full season also. I personally think people just latch on to the hand full of "bad calls" he makes per game, and blame him for some things I fell are not in his control such as play clock,

some play calls, drops,

using time efficiently, ect

 

just my 2 cents, dude is not the greatest but top 12-15 in the league 

[Cpt slay a ho]

12 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

Cpt sounds like you are downplaying the consistently shitty play-calling. Remember the three runs in a row on the potential game winning drive last game? Throw on the goal line? Many many more examples, if we fans are calling plays before they happen can you imagine how predictable they are to actual nfl coaches and players of other teams? Sure player execution has been terrible but so has the fuging playcalling. 

Remember all play calls that got Olsen 1v1 or open in a zone? and I agree with the 3 runs play call but da was playing like trash....and the choice to pass on the 1 yard line isn't that bad....the decision to throw into dbl coverage is worst. The penalties are drive killers man, our OT suck, so the very last thing we need is getting 3 false starts in a row, a holding call, PF ect. That just means a d line can feast on our qb 

[iamhubby1]

10 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

Cpt sounds like you are downplaying the consistently shitty play-calling. Remember the three runs in a row on the potential game winning drive last game? Throw on the goal line? Many many more examples, if we fans are calling plays before they happen can you imagine how predictable they are to actual nfl coaches and players of other teams? Sure player execution has been terrible but so has the fuging playcalling. 

 

I'm sorry, but this always tickles me. Just because we can guess a play here and there, does not mean we are calling plays before they happen. And NFL Defenses do watch tape, and study tendencies, so yeah, sometimes it does look like they know what is coming.

 

That said, if we were that predictable, our Offense would never move the ball. So the exaggeration is somewhat misplaced.