PFF Ranks Defensive Front Sevens - Panthers #3

[KB_fan]

Apologies if this has already been posted.  I checked but didn't see it, but I'm only on here so infrequently, I could have missed it...

PFF has an article up raking all defensive front sevens:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-defensive-front-sevens-this-season/

 

 

Quote

 

3. Carolina Panthers

Top overall grade: DT Kawann Short, 87.7

Lowest overall grade: NT Star Lotulelei, 46.9

Carolina started off slowly, but by the middle of the season, the Panthers were once again dominating around the line of scrimmage. Everyone knows about Kawann Short by now, who finished as the third-highest graded interior defensive lineman, but defensive end Mario Addison’s season flew more under the radar. He finished fourth among all edge players in pass-rushing productivity and racked up his double-digit sack total in only 433 snaps all season.

 

 

That's a higher ranking than I expected..., encouraging, I guess with all the injuries, though somehow I'm not sure the defense dominated at critical times.  They'd look really strong, then fold at the worst moments..., unlike 2015.

Love the praise for Addison, he had an awesome season.

Still surprised at how low PFF ranks Star...

But if we can get some added strength at DE, and if Luke returns to his Lukeness, we certainly have a great foundation to build on.

[Ace_Aladdin]

That's why you can't  go solely based on PFF , have to use the eye test as they say.

 

[Saca312]

36 minutes ago, sanjay_rajput said:

That's why you can't  go solely based on PFF , have to use the eye test as they say.

 

Eye test told me that our front was dominant after the bye week.

 

[Zaximus]

This is why we have to keep Short.  He's the anchor.  People think he fell off but I think he was still dominant just didn't have the sack totals from the previous year.  He's still a stud.  

[top dawg]

Seems like PFF is having a hard time grading nose tackles. Space eaters get no love.

It would be interesting to know specifically how they grade these guys.

[uncfan888]

25 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Eye test told me that our front was dominant after the bye week.

 

It's funny that he'd say that after he was using his alt account to post pff grades over and over in every thread. 

[Kakarot]

Need to pay Short, and keep him here long term.

[Khyber53]

52 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

This is why we have to keep Short.  He's the anchor.  People think he fell off but I think he was still dominant just didn't have the sack totals from the previous year.  He's still a stud.  

Here's the thing. I think it's hard for the average viewer to really understand what a defensive tackle is supposed to be doing on most downs. We've all been taught to look for sacks from defensive linemen and most of us also know that a running stop behind the line of scrimmage is basically a rushing game sack. Those are really more the regular job of defensive ends, though, who do get the majority of the attention.

What most of us don't see, myself included a lot of the time, is how a defensive tackle or nose tackle's job might be to tie up one particular lineman, or to shift the movement of the overall line. Their job on a passing play may be nothing more than to clog the center and create the pivot point around which a pocket is collapsed. It's a case of the lever getting all the credit while the fulcrum does the hard work.

Luckily, our GM seems to really, really understand this and has made our DTs a big part of the overall plan. While Star is a stalwart and plays the classic role, Short really all of a sudden shot up as someone getting sacks and disrupting plays on the level of the best DEs in the league last season. This most recent season, he produced more like a traditional DT, but it was still enough to garner attention and get the big money talk started. The problem is that once a guy like him gets money like a big time DE, there's a performance let down as the sacks drop. But those sacks are really not indicative of how the position is normally played and coached. So you end up with a bad measuring stick.

Short, I think, would be incredible as a defensive end in our scheme and perhaps we should approach contract negotiations with a move like that in mind. With Butler showing up late in the season, a D-line featuring Short, Butler, Star and the rotation of CJ and Mario would be pretty stout.

Just my 2 cents.

[KB_fan]

1 hour ago, Zaximus said:

This is why we have to keep Short.  He's the anchor.  People think he fell off but I think he was still dominant just didn't have the sack totals from the previous year.  He's still a stud.  

Agree.  I was also really impressed about how the line play improved when he was playing outside at DE.  That versatility to play EFFECTIVELY both at DT and DE is worth alot.  He may not have had 11 sacks in 2016, but he's still going to get a big payday, and really hope it's with us.

[KB_fan]

48 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Short, I think, would be incredible as a defensive end in our scheme and perhaps we should approach contract negotiations with a move like that in mind. With Butler showing up late in the season, a D-line featuring Short, Butler, Star and the rotation of CJ and Mario would be pretty stout.

Just my 2 cents.

Excellent post.  You do a really nice job in explaining that there's so much more to DT play than sacks.  Well said. 

You know, the more I think about it, if we re-sign Addison and Short, we may not be so thin at DE after all, even with CJ getting older and possibly being gone...  Yes, I'd still like us to get more depth & competition at DE, but the scenario of moving Short to DE for a good portion of his snaps, with Butler to take his place at DT is a pretty exciting option.  Including Short in the mix as we think about our DE situation changes the situation considerably.

[Snake]

This is why PFF stats are rubbish. KK was the most under performing and Star was the most. 

[Ace_Aladdin]

2 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Eye test told me that our front was dominant after the bye week.

 

Not consistent enough still got stone walled during 3rd downs , I was right about Butler

my eyes are better than yours :p

[Ace_Aladdin]

2 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

It's funny that he'd say that after he was using his alt account to post pff grades over and over in every thread. 

I always said eye test

Look who is taking the king of alt account 

[Davidson Deac II]

3 hours ago, sanjay_rajput said:

That's why you can't  go solely based on PFF , have to use the eye test as they say.

 

The problem with the eye test is that its not very objective.