Legit question. Does LeBron belong in the same breath as Jordan if he and the Cavs beat the Warriors this year?

[nctarheel0619]

I keep hearing this analyst that have nothing to do with basketball say yes to this question.  But, in my view, I don't think I can put him there.  He's lost entirely too many times in the Finals for me to put him there.  

[Wundrbread33]

Lebron is in the same breath because this question is asked so much.

He's showing again in this postseason just how dominant he is.


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[Zaximus]

I feel bad for Lebron.   I think he gets less credit because of how terrible the league is minus a few teams.   If competition was better like it was in the 90's (even though Bulls dominated there was good teams and more "got a chance" teams).   So another year of Cavs vs Warriors, boring and expected.   He's the best player of this generation but won't get the credit he deserves, at least not for a while.  

[djp14]

1 hour ago, nctarheel0619 said:

He's lost entirely too many times in the Finals for me to put him there.  

Hypothetical question (which will never happen): Imagine Lebron ends his career with a 6-4 record in the NBA Finals. Is that better or worse than being 6-0 in the finals? Because if it's seen as worse, it means that MJ gets more credit for missing the finals than Lebron gets for making them.

[Carl Spackler]

It's really a three-team league now - Cavs, Warriors and Celtics

In the '90s, you had the Bulls, Jazz, Rockets, Pacers, Magic, Hornets, Suns, Blazers and Heat all with a shot of some kind

[nctarheel0619]

24 minutes ago, djp14 said:

Hypothetical question (which will never happen): Imagine Lebron ends his career with a 6-4 record in the NBA Finals. Is that better or worse than being 6-0 in the finals? Because if it's seen as worse, it means that MJ gets more credit for missing the finals than Lebron gets for making them.

Then I can go hypothetical and ask "should MJ have signed with the Celtics, Lakers, or Pistons back in the day like LeBron did with the Heat, then with the Cavs again?  And quit on Chicago?  Then, flip back to the Bulls when Pippen got into his prime?"  Because, MJ never had an All-Star until Pippen became one.  Just FYI.  

[Carl Spackler]

As an addendum I have a copy of Inside Sports' 1997-98 NBA preview and its NBA Finals prediction was:

Charlotte Hornets vs. Utah Jazz

[Omega Atrocity]

For sure, the Warriors are far and away better than any team Jordan ever beat in a finals. No matter what is said in this sub-forum, the 90s were a more watered down league than today. The NBA expanded by 4 teams in that era and there were a lot of just garbage teams rotting at the bottom, it's why the Jazz were able to stay relevant for so long.

You could say that the average playoff team now isn't as good as it was in that era , which is fair, each conference had about 4 good teams so Jordan had to go through a tougher road to get there and not get 27 days of rest through the first two rounds. 

It still wouldn't be the case of LeBron is better for sure, but it would be much close. A fun thing to remember: LeBron James is only 32 years old. All that being said, it is really really difficult to compare the two, the league isn't anything like it was then.

 

Teams Jordan played in the finals:

1990-91 Lakers (58-24): 7.1 Net Rating

1991-92 Blazers (57-25): 6.9 Net Rating

1992-93 Suns (62-20): 6.4 Net Rating

1995-96 Sonics (64-18): 8.2 Net Rating

1996-97 Jazz (64-18): 9.6 Net Rating 

1997-98 Jazz (62-20): 7.3 Net Rating

 

Teams LeBron played in the finals:

2006-07 Spurs (58-24): 9.3 Net Rating (L)

2010-11 Mavericks (57-25): 4.7 Net Rating (L)

2011-12 Thunder (47-19 prorated to 59-23): 6.6 Net Rating

2012-13 Spurs (58-24): 6.7 Net Rating

2013-14 Spurs (62-20): 8.1 Net Rating (L)

2014-15 Warriors (67-15): 10.2 Net Rating (L)

2015-16 Warriors (73-9): 10.7 Net Rating

2016-17 Warriors (67-15): 11.6 Net Rating (?)

[djp14]

2 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Then I can go hypothetical and ask "should MJ have signed with the Celtics, Lakers, or Pistons back in the day like LeBron did with the Heat, then with the Cavs again?  And quit on Chicago?  Then, flip back to the Bulls when Pippen got into his prime?"  Because, MJ never had an All-Star until Pippen became one.  Just FYI.  

Okay, but that's a different argument that in no way addresses my question.

For the record, I rate MJ above Lebron. Like most people, I'd guess.

.

[nctarheel0619]

2 hours ago, Omega Atrocity said:

the 90s were a more watered down league than today

If that's the case, which I completely disagree.  Why are there more Hall of Famers in that era then there are now?  For instance, Kobe, Duncan, and KG just retired.  And some would say they were in the LeBron era.  Which I would again, disagree.  But, in Jordan's era?  Hall of Famers off the top of my head.  You have Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler, Ewing, Miller, Stockton, Payton, David Robinson, Malone, Joe Dumars, Mutumbo, Mourning, and Shaq.  I can keep going too.  To say the league was watered down would be a little ridiculous wouldn't it?  I mean, you've got over 11 Hall of Famers from that era alone.  

This era LeBron is facing in the Eastern Conference Hall of Famers like.................ummmmmmmmmmm...........uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...................Paul George!  That's it!  Yeah, he's going to the Hall of Fame.  Oh, also.  Bad ass Demar Derozen.  Yep!  He's got it in the bag.  

[Carl Spackler]

There are only about six players in today's NBA who would've been All-Stars in the 1990s

LeBron
Westbrook
Durant
Curry
Harden
Thomas (MAYBE)

No center now would be a top-five center in 1998

[Omega Atrocity]

You guys misunderstand what I mean. Top level talent whatever that's arguable, and there has always been a lot of it in the playoffs. The average nba team in 2017 is much better than the average nba team was in say 1994.

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[pantherphan96]

If Lebron losing in the Finals is what makes him less than Jordan maybe we should look at who he lost to:

2007- Lebron drags a 50-32 team with Drew Gooden, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Daniel Gibson, and Aleksander Pavlovic as the other starters to the Finals to face the 58-24 San Antonio Spurs. They get swept.

2011- Lost 4-2 to the Mavs. Was terrible in the 4th quarter of the Finals. Got a lot of poo for his performance and it was well deserved.

2014- Attempting a 3peat, faced the Spurs for the 2nd consecutive year. Spurs finished 8 games better during the regular season. Lost 4-1 despite Lebron averaging 28/8/4 on 57/51/80 shooting splits.

2015- His most impressive performance yet, without Kevin Love and Irving he had his worst supporting cast since 07, facing his best Finals opponent yet. Led both teams in minutes, rebounds, assists, and points.

 

His Finals wins include beating the early stacked Thunder of KD, Russ and Harden; a consistently great Spurs team the next year, and the best regular season team of all time in the Warriors.

Let's not forget Jordan had a HOF teammates in Pippen and Rodman, arguably the most dominant rebounder of his era.

And the 90s have been incredibly overrated as a basketball era, it may have been more physical but Lebron is a specimen that would be unheard of back then, 6'8 250lbs incredibly fast, strong and agile. He would be dominant in any era. I think that after he retires people will realize he is a top 5 player all-time.

 

Also this Warriors team is the most stacked team in history and if Lebron beats them it will surpass any team Jordan ever faced.

[rico6]

Lebron plays in the East for a reason. His legacy would look a hell of a lot different if he had to dog it out with the Rockets, Spurs, Warriors year in and out. Dude is definitely top 5, but Jordan is undefeated in the finals. 'Bron was the MAIN reason that 2011 Heat team is ringless.

To his credit, Shawn Marion is like one of the GOAT Wing Defenders of his time and shut Bron down, but still..