Head Coaches don’t grow on trees

[NAS]

12 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Hopefully when the day comes, and it will, I hope Tepper wants an offensive philosophy from the top down.  Get a strong DC but make it about the offense.  That’s what wins championships now.  Richardson was always defense: Capers, Fox, Rivera.

It has been the entire existence of the franchise, it’s all we know.  We’re likely going to look back one day and wonder what Cam Newton’s career might have looked like under different leadership and philosophy.  The years of surrounding Cam with spare parts and pieces from around the league, or making the important O line an afterthought.

im not calling for his dismissal today because I don’t think that there is a better optoin available right now.  But when one is identified, we should go for it instead of resting on laurels. 

Cam would probably have better statistical stats with someone like Andy Reid, but would it necessarily result in a championship?  I think recent recently has proven that defense still wins championship (Eagles, Broncos, Seahawks).  Even the Patriots are coached by a defensive minded coach in Bill Bellichick.  

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, NAS said:

Who do you have in mind?

One of the hot names being discussed is Dan Campbell. Bill Parcells protege, strong coaching demeanor, solid offensive mind.

There's also Dave Toub. He's been getting a lot of chatter the past few seasons, and deservedly so. John Harbaugh has shown that special teams coaches can make great head coaches. Toub could be the next one.

Another guy who got a lot of attention last year: John DeFilippo. Brilliant offensive mind, generally expected to be a head coach within the next few years.

If you want to stay on defense, lots of people are looking at the guy who did a lot to stifle our offense in the latter part of the game yesterday, James Bettcher.

That's just off the top of my head. If you wanted to dig, there are definitely more candidates.

There are always candidates. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

I consider Ron to be a slightly above average coach. If he could get past his ridiculous obsession with starting vets over more obvious talent at the same position, I would put him in the category of above average. It might be considered a minor flaw to some, I consider it a major one. Part of his job is talent evaluation and putting the right guys on the field. Week after week, we see him put guys like Torrey in when difference makers are sitting on the bench. It usually takes an injury to get the more talented guy on the field. We only have Cam and Luke for so long, two HoF guys in the prime of their career being held back, imo, by a coach's refusal to see what is right in front of him. 

The NFL has been evolving into an offense oriented league for years. It's time for us to jump on that bandwagon. Defense doesn't have to win championships if their offense can never get on the field. Scores in the 30's and 40s are becoming the norm. The league has QBs so protected, Cam excluded, that if you fart in their general direction it's a personal foul. It has never been easier to score points in the history of the NFL.

Ron's unwillingness to change is his greatest weakness. Without Cam and Luke, I don't think he's CotY 2x and definitely not employed here. I don't know who to bring in as a coach, but if I'm looking, I'm looking for someone who is willing to see the future and embrace the changes needed to take this team to a Lombardi. I wish it was, but I don't think Ron's that guy. 

[KillaCamNewton]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I consider Ron to be a slightly above average coach. If he could get past his ridiculous obsession with starting vets over more obvious talent at the same position, I would put him in the category of above average. It might be considered a minor flaw to some, I consider it a major one. Part of his job is talent evaluation and putting the right guys on the field. Week after week, we see him put guys like Torrey in when difference makers are sitting on the bench. It usually takes an injury to get the more talented guy on the field. We only have Cam and Luke for so long, two HoF guys in the prime of their career being held back, imo, by a coach's refusal to see what is right in front of him. 

The NFL has been evolving into an offense oriented league for years. It's time for us to jump on that bandwagon. Defense doesn't have to win championships if their offense can never get on the field. Scores in the 30's and 40s are becoming the norm. The league has QBs so protected, Cam excluded, that if you fart in their general direction it's a personal foul. It has never been easier to score points in the history of the NFL.

Ron's unwillingness to change is his greatest weakness. Without Cam and Luke, I don't think he's CotY 2x and definitely not employed here. I don't know who to bring in as a coach, but if I'm looking, I'm looking for someone who is willing to see the future and embrace the changes needed to take this team to a Lombardi. I wish it was, but I don't think Ron's that guy. 

his commitment to vets and his clock management are maddening.

yesterday was a flashback of his first season. The Giants were about to get a delay of game and Ron called a timeout because we had too many men on the field. Could have made a 52 yard field goal into a 57 yarder. I remember him calling that timeout against the Saints before the half ran out and allowed them to set up their field goal

 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

I swear people would be satisfied with Marvin Lewis as HC. He always makes the playoffs!

[PFChangz]

16 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

his commitment to vets and his clock management are maddening.

yesterday was a flashback of his first season. The Giants were about to get a delay of game and Ron called a timeout because we had too many men on the field. Could have made a 52 yard field goal into a 57 yarder. I remember him calling that timeout against the Saints before the half ran out and allowed them to set up their field goal

 

Didn't get to watch the game, but on the radio they said that Luke was the one that called that time out.

[UNCrules2187]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are solid head coaching candidates available every single year.

The notion that you can't fire the existing coach because there's nobody better is just ridiculous. That's the kind of philosophy that would have held on to Jeff Fisher instead of taking a chance on Sean McVay.

While I appreciate the point you're making and certainly think Rivera isn't the be-all, end-all of coaching, Jeff Fisher is a poor and disingenuous example. Fisher's best record since 2009 is 8-8 and he hadn't made the playoffs since the 2008 season. Rivera has at least won double digit games 3 of his 7 full seasons and made the playoffs 4 times in his tenure.

[Little Goody Two Shoes]

Yeah, well apples do and even some of those aren't any damn good. How do you like those apples?

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

While I appreciate the point you're making and certainly think Rivera isn't the be-all, end-all of coaching, Jeff Fisher is a poor and disingenuous example. Fisher's best record since 2009 is 8-8 and he hadn't made the playoffs since the 2008 season. Rivera has at least won double digit games 3 of his 7 full seasons and made the playoffs 4 times in his tenure.

I was never that much of a Jeff Fisher fan. That said, the reason that I invoke him here is that people were constantly talking about how good a coach he was. That's why he held on longer than he really should have.

if you want better examples of coaches who won a lot of games but never won championships, I'd mention Dennis Green, Marty Schottenheimer and Andy Reid (granted, he still has a shot).

[MillionDollarCam]

1 hour ago, KillaCamNewton said:

McVay

Shanahan 

Pederson

Payton

Carroll

Zimmer

Belichick 

 

- Belichek is the real deal but outside of that none of these other coaches scream consistency and success.

- Sean McVay certainly looks to be the next great coach but it’s still early. The same thing goes for Pederson; sure he’s won a Super Bowl but he’s already coming under scrutiny for some of his decisions this year. For all we know Pederson could be the next Gruden, he wins one Super Bowl and then falters.

- Payton has one Super Bowl in 11 years of coaching (Rivera has only been coaching for 7 years) and has missed the playoffs three out of the last five years. In fact Payton has missed the playoffs nearly as many times as he’s made the playoffs.

- Much like Payton, Carroll has exactly one Super Bowl win in his 13 year coaching career. The thing that has separated Carroll from most coaches is that he consistently has the Hawks in the playoffs (much like Rivera).

- Zimmer is the definition of inconsistent. He’s altered back and forth between missing and making the playoffs during his first four years and he seems to be headed for more of the same.

Rivera has coached for seven years and made the playoffs four out of the last five years, only six coaches can say that: Belichek, Tomlin, McCarthy, Carroll, Reid, and Rivera.

Consistenty is the first step to building a dynasty and Rivera is on the right track. Some are okay with winning a Super Bowl and then drifitng back to irrelevancy (i.e. the Buccaneers). However, the Panthers have the ability to build a consistent contender and Rivera has certainly played a part in that.

[MillionDollarCam]

1 hour ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

I swear people would be satisfied with Marvin Lewis as HC. He always makes the playoffs!

So you would trade a Super Bowl win for mediocracy instead of trying to build a consistent contender.

Only two teams in the past 18 years have made the playoffs consistently while also winning a Super Bowl, those teams being the Patriots and Steelers. Every other team that has won a Super Bowl in that 18 year period has also missed the playoffs in three consecutive years during that same time frame.

And no, Marvin Lewis does not always make the playoffs. He’s missed the playoffs in more seasons than he’s made the playoffs, unlike Rivera.

[Fox007]

6 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Consistenty is the first step to building a dynasty and Rivera is on the right track. Some are okay with winning a Super Bowl and then drifitng back to irrelevancy (i.e. the Buccaneers). However, the Panthers have the ability to build a consistent contender and Rivera has certainly played a part in that.

And the first step to consistency is having back to back winning seasons, which Rivera has yet to do. He's also played more than a part in that fact.

He shows over and over again that he will keep any team in the game with him and allow that team to have a shot to beat him. He shows time and time again that he is not putting the best player out there when it comes to personnel.

This team is at the point to where many teams have been before and a coaching change could very well do it to tip the team over. Rivera is not improving in any one area of his weaknesses. Game management: Poor as ever, Personnel Decisions: Poor as ever forced by injuries to play better players, Style of Coaching: Poor only when on the hotseat will he change and then only  until not on the hotseat.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

- Belichek is the real deal but outside of that none of these other coaches scream consistency and success.

- Sean McVay certainly looks to be the next great coach but it’s still early. The same thing goes for Pederson; sure he’s won a Super Bowl but he’s already coming under scrutiny for some of his decisions this year. For all we know Pederson could be the next Gruden, he wins one Super Bowl and then falters.

- Payton has one Super Bowl in 11 years of coaching (Rivera has only been coaching for 7 years) and has missed the playoffs three out of the last five years. In fact Payton has missed the playoffs nearly as many times as he’s made the playoffs.

- Much like Payton, Carroll has exactly one Super Bowl win in his 13 year coaching career. The thing that has separated Carroll from most coaches is that he consistently has the Hawks in the playoffs (much like Rivera).

- Zimmer is the definition of inconsistent. He’s altered back and forth between missing and making the playoffs during his first four years and he seems to be headed for more of the same.

Rivera has coached for seven years and made the playoffs four out of the last five years, only six coaches can say that: Belichek, Tomlin, McCarthy, Carroll, Reid, and Rivera.

Consistenty is the first step to building a dynasty and Rivera is on the right track. Some are okay with winning a Super Bowl and then drifitng back to irrelevancy (i.e. the Buccaneers). However, the Panthers have the ability to build a consistent contender and Rivera has certainly played a part in that.

That guy Doug Pederson won a game last year that was kind of important.

[MillionDollarCam]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That guy Doug Pederson won a game last year that was kind of important.

As I noted in my post.

Let me know how many Super Bowls Tomlin has won after winning one in his second year.

It’s harder to be consistent than fans want to admit and it’s even harder to win Super Bowls.