2019 Challenge

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, t96 said:

Scot, you know I’m more of a DG guy, and thought bringing Hurney back was retarded—and Tepper keeping him was dumb too. But I will say I have overall liked Hurney’s moves so far in his second go around. I’m not a Hurney supporter, I judge all moves individually and then judge them all added up and how I think the personnel contributes to the team’s play. However I can’t say that Hurney is 100% to blame or credit for success or failure. Ron, who technically can only be fired by Tepper, can take some blame/credit and although it’s a classic excuse, health factors in as well—obviously as it relates to our most important player in Cam. We can’t control any of this so why not just sit back and root for him and the team to succeed without constantly bashing him?

You've probably heard me say many times that the overall result is a team effort, and I haven't changed my opinion on that. I also haven't changed my opinion that Rivera and Hurney are not a very good combination.

What I find laughable are the suggestions by some that all of Gettleman's success owes to Hurney.  This coming from the same folks who want to credit Marty for 2017 even though he wasn't around for any of the offseason. And yes, even this past season there were people trying to blame the collapse on Gettleman.

Like I said, laughable. And frankly, stupid.

That's why I say, whatever the results, Hurney is the only person to whom roster related success or failure can rightly be attributed this season. Coaching is still on Rivera obviously, but any suggestions that roster problems (or successes) could be traced back to anyone other than Marty are about as dumbass as they come.

I thought that would be a pretty easy thing to accept, but apparently not. What's hilarious too is that people are saying "oh,you just want to blame Marty" when I've also said he gets full credit for success.Maybe they're not as confident as they claim.

Or maybe some people just really want to hang on to their ability to pass the buck if the season doesn't go as planned

[Double Trouble]

2 hours ago, sml1950 said:

Third option...... If we win the SB this year it will be because of CAM NEWTON......

Yep. This team basically lives and dies by Cam's health. Healthy Cam = 11+ wins, injured Cam =  < 8 wins. 

[carpanfan96]

Hurney trained Beane.  Gettleman got hired and let Beane rise up the ranks and run drafts and perform draft trades and such. Beane leaves team, Gettleman gets fired right after. Hurney comes back. 

 

Hurney and his style never left the front office, Beane was here. Hell for all intents and purposes Beane should be the GM here in Carolina.

 

In silliness I propose that Hurney takes credit for all of it, because of Beane being here. 

 

This season just as last season rests on the health of Cam's shoulder, if he's healthy and actually back then successful season....if not well I'd imagine it would look a lot like last season.  

[Mr. Scot]

23 minutes ago, Double Trouble said:

Yep. This team basically lives and dies by Cam's health. Healthy Cam = 11+ wins, injured Cam =  < 8 wins. 

Then it'd probably be wise to invest in a good backup.

[Sub Zero]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You've probably heard me say many times that the overall result is a team effort, and I haven't changed my opinion on that. I also haven't changed my opinion that Rivera and Hurney are not a very good combination.

What I find laughable are the suggestions by some that all of Gettleman's success owes to Hurney.  This coming from the same folks who want to credit Marty for 2017 even though he wasn't around for any of the offseason. And yes, even this past season there were people trying to blame the collapse on Gettleman.

Like I said, laughable. And frankly, stupid.

That's why I say, whatever the results, Hurney is the only person to whom roster related success or failure can rightly be attributed this season. Coaching is still on Rivera obviously, but any suggestions that roster problems (or successes) could be traced back to anyone other than Marty are about as dumbass as they come.

I thought that would be a pretty easy thing to accept, but apparently not. What's hilarious too is that people are saying "oh,you just want to blame Marty" when I've also said he gets full credit for success.Maybe they're not as confident as they claim.

Or maybe some people just really want to hang on to their ability to pass the buck if the season doesn't go as planned

Again Narrative made up in his head..

A percieved slight to Gettelmen made you make a thread to tell ppl to pledge to something they already do at a place made for them to do it .....smh

Omg 

What is your real relationship to Dave Gettelmen?? 

Literally nobody (I've seen) said Hurney gets all the credit for Gettelmen success.. Nobody.. And even if 1 fool did .. Why does it disturb "You" so much that you have to defend Gman like a cult member??? He is just a football GM not the messiah. Lol

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

The "challenge" seems to imply its Superbowl or bust.

[motocross_cat]

Health will be the make or break by the time the season is over more so than hurney.

[Icege]

A lot of folks are spending a lot of time saying they dont care, yet are some of the first to jump into threads to share their opinion on this.

Just take the challenge and win bragging rights or a hot plate of crow. Why are some of yall so insecure that you're reduced to personal attacks and gaslighting?

[Peon Awesome]

This is a child's mentality. Hurney by himself isn't responsible for all the success and failure of this team. It's an incredibly stupid thing to pledge. It's that simplistic black and white mentality that make people ridicule you for your blind devotion to Gettleman. 

Our success is built on roster construction including free agency and drafting, which are things the gm is responsible for, but also the health of the team, coaching, and player execution in games. That's why deciding whether a gm is good or bad purely on the win/loss record is simple-minded and short-sighted. Carolina was on pace to be 12-4 before Cam's shoulder went to hell. Would Hurney be an amazing gm if Cam had stayed healthy but is actually shitty since he got injured? And if ther Panthers go 13-3 this year but Paradis and Williams get injured in week 1 and none of our 2019 draft picks end up being meaningful contributors, do we give Hurney all the credit?

Listen, Hurney and Gettleman have their strengths and weaknesses. It's stupid to belabor this pointless argument.

[Sub Zero]

32 minutes ago, Icege said:

A lot of folks are spending a lot of time saying they dont care, yet are some of the first to jump into threads to share their opinion on this.

Just take the challenge and win bragging rights or a hot plate of crow. Why are some of yall so insecure that you're reduced to personal attacks and gaslighting?

Do you cup Scot's old balls when giving him mouth service??

[Proudiddy]

Scot, I know you say that you aren't a fan of Gettleman, but rather appreciate what he did here.

That being said, there's a lot of overlap between what Hurney did here in his first tenure, what Gettleman did during his, and now what Hurney is doing in his second tenure.  I'm not a "fan" of any executive over the team itself, but rather a fan of their successes.  The whole Gettleman vs Hurney debate has so many variables that I honestly don't know how anyone could attribute the entire outcome of a season to one of them at this point.

Being objective, Gettleman achieved success by building a whole roster, but again, Hurney's guys were the heavy lifters.  It could also be argued Gettleman took unnecessary steps back instead of building on strengths several times to the point that it set us back as a franchise.  And yet, everyone wants to attribute his successes solely to his efforts.

Hurney meanwhile is not ever given sole credit for the draft selections he made and guys he acquired otherwise during his first tenure.  Yet he is constantly solely blamed for the "cap hell" he created with the money giveaway after the lockout...  it's as if people don't realize JR was a businessman and micromanaged everything during that period and saw it as a PR-win.  It's arguable the only bad contract Hurney has given out in this second tenure is Poe's, but that could still be salvaged...  but, he's still viewed as an idiot that couldnt win the first time around, and again, it is ignored that JR oversaw EVERYTHING then.

So, now here we are...  new owner, Hurney seems to be making some great moves.  Surprising even.  So, now, you're asking are we ready to lay the season's outcomes solely at his feet?  I don't know.  I think he'll deserve most of the credit or blame, but it can't be discounted that he has had to take two years rebuilding a lot of what Gettleman destroyed on his ego-trip towards the end...  The secondary still has to be fixed years after the Norman fiasco, but we're a lot closer to that than we were.  The OL is just now getting shored up, but that took years as well.  And WR is finally looking like a strength for the first time since Smitty and Moose.  And yet, we desperately need help in the front seven, and have to work around KK's contract and subpar production. 

So, I will hedge and say, Marty will be responsible for the majority of the season outcome, but not all...  much like I don't feel Gettleman was responsible for all of the successes during his tenure.

Also, wanted to throw this out there...  I saw Diane Russini on a Podcast yesterday, I believe...  and they were discussing NYG, and she said in regards to Gettleman, "you have to remember, he comes from a scout's background.  So he likes HIS players.  He likes the idea of discovering a talent and developing them from scratch."  Which I believe is often to his detriment.  And again, I'm not a Marty fan, per se, but I am a fan of his success.  He might not be the meat and potatoes/hardened scout that Gettleman is, and he might not have the background of Gettleman...  but, I believe he has a great eye for talent and is far better the second time around (without JR) than the first.  And yes, I acknowledge our greatest string of seasons and winning was under Gettleman, but I will not solely attribute that to him either.

I just hope we stay healthy this year, especially Cam...  and if we can, I expect a successful year based off what we've done so far.

[panthers55]

Yeah the season is on Hurney and Rivera. When it is awesome it will be sweet crow for the critics . Here is another challenge. Stop complaining and bitching about Hurney until the end of the season. If no one can praise Hurney until December when we see the results, then no one can criticize until December as well since we won't know until then according to the OP. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

The "challenge" seems to imply its Superbowl or bust.

It's not about making a prediction. The season result is irrelevant.

What I've said here is that I, as a Hurney detractor, I'm willing to give him full credit if the roster he puts together pulls off a good season.

I've challenged those who believe"Hurney 2.0" is a thing to accept that, whether good or bad, there's nobody to be credited (or blamed) for the personnel. No blaming old GMs, owners, whatever.

It seems like a fairly simple thing to me, but everybody seems to be looking for a way out of saying it.

[heel31ok]

Yeah ...I say of course its his team and he is accountable for it...