Robinson: Cam Newton’s injury sets up defining point for new Panthers owner David Tepper

[SmartyHurney]

So Hurney found Jake Delhomme and Cam Newton. Do you think we should keep him if Cam is done and we need another franchise quarterback?

 

[MasterAwesome]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Only smart enough to restructure / extend him / increase his cap hit, right?

Yeah, brilliant.

You talking about Hurney having to exercise that wonky-ass turd of an option that Gettleman wrote into Kalil’s contract to avoid jacking up our 2018 cap by $10 million? Thanks for reminding me how shitty of a contract that was...jesus.

[Cpt slay a ho]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Remind me, who exactly did Marty draft that offseason? What free agents did he sign?

And if the Panthers are rebuilding, are you really going to tell me you trust Marty Hurney to run it?

He might be better this time around, you say. Oh sure. Hey, I hear Matt Kalil is available. Maybe he'll be better this time too. We should give him another shot.

Again another example that isn’t even on the same stratosphere as what we’re discussing, Matt Kalil is on his 3rd team, and he got enough chances here and in the league. Hurney is on his second chance, I’m not advocating giving him multiple chances just one 

I’d trust hurney to find a qb in the first over most gm in the league, only in the first however.   

Your argument was all that matters is the win/loss correct? So what does it matter who hurney signed or drafted in 2017 he was the gm of the 2017 panthers playoff team by the logic that has been on display in this thread, we can’t be subjective in one area and ignore subjective content in another area. 

[hepcat]

10 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Again another example that isn’t even on the same stratosphere as what we’re discussing, Matt Kalil is on his 3rd team, and he got enough chances here and in the league. Hurney is on his second chance, I’m not advocating giving him multiple chances just one 

I’d trust hurney to find a qb in the first over most gm in the league, only in the first however.   

Your argument was all that matters is the win/loss correct? So what does it matter who hurney signed or drafted in 2017 he was the gm of the 2017 panthers playoff team by the logic that has been on display in this thread, we can’t be subjective in one area and ignore subjective content in another area. 

Bro. I’m gonna give you some advice. Mr Scot is the most stubborn poster this forum has ever seen. He knows a lot about football but he’s also wrong about a lot of things too. His wrongness is rooted in a lot more information than yours and my opinion. He hates Marty Hurney (as a GM) to the very core of his being and you will never change that opinion.

He hates him so much that he would never give him credit for drafting almost all of the franchise superstars, some who are still here today from his first tenure as GM. Or especially his second stint as GM where he’s honestly appeared to learn from his mistakes and has not only been drafting better but has been mostly responsible with his salary cap moves. 

No GM is perfect. Gettleman made some massive mistakes as Panthers GM. Most of Gettleman’s success came on the backs of players Hurney drafted. But don’t tell Mr Scot that! He will bury his face in the sand and scream Hurney is the devil until his eyes explode.

ok I’m done with this thread now
 

 

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

12 hours ago, SmartyHurney said:

So Hurney found Jake Delhomme and Cam Newton. Do you think we should keep him if Cam is done and we need another franchise quarterback?

 

Nonsense. We will burn that bridge when it gets to that point but now stop with the "If Cam is done we can get rid of him" crap until then and see how it plays out.

[MasterAwesome]

39 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Bro. I’m gonna give you some advice. Mr Scot is the most stubborn poster this forum has ever seen. He knows a lot about football but he’s also wrong about a lot of things too. His wrongness is rooted in a lot more information than yours and my opinion. He hates Marty Hurney (as a GM) to the very core of his being and you will never change that opinion.

He hates him so much that he would never give him credit for drafting almost all of the franchise superstars, some who are still here today from his first tenure as GM. Or especially his second stint as GM where he’s honestly appeared to learn from his mistakes and has not only been drafting better but has been mostly responsible with his salary cap moves. 

No GM is perfect. Gettleman made some massive mistakes as Panthers GM. Most of Gettleman’s success came on the backs of players Hurney drafted. But don’t tell Mr Scot that! He will bury his face in the sand and scream Hurney is the devil until his eyes explode.

ok I’m done with this thread now
 

 

The ironic thing is that both Hurney and Gettleman’s respective teams’ successes have been hampered by the same coaching decisions this season...which is playing the injured/underperforming vet over the capable young backup. Both young QBs were inserted into the lineup on the same week and both pulled off their teams’ first win of the season.

However, Hurney gets blamed for “not having the balls” to force the coach to sit Cam while Gettleman gets a pass for allowing Shurmur to run with a decrepit old Eli instead of their rookie QB who dominated the entire preseason.

This is a pretty great case study on how team success relies on a very delicate balance between GM and Head Coach - the GM provides talent, while the Head Coach has to figure out how to best utilize it. But nah...”WHAT’S HIS RECORD THO?!?”.

[trueblade]

5 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

But nah...”WHAT’S HIS RECORD THO?!?”.

Using Gettlemen's Carolina records, the metric of win/loss says he's a great GM. Using Gettlemen's Giants record, the same metric says he's terrible.

When the same metric gives you two different evaluations of the same person, I think its fair to question if its the best metric to be using.

I haven't done the research, but I'd be curious to see if other examples exist of a GM having a great W/L record one place and a terrible one somewhere else. 

[Ricky Spanish]

7 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Using Gettlemen's Carolina records, the metric of win/loss says he's a great GM. Using Gettlemen's Giants record, the same metric says he's terrible.

When the same metric gives you two different evaluations of the same person, I think its fair to question if its the best metric to be using.

I haven't done the research, but I'd be curious to see if other examples exist of a GM having a great W/L record one place and a terrible one somewhere else. 

Bill Belichick

[Mr. Scot]

11 hours ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Again another example that isn’t even on the same stratosphere as what we’re discussing, Matt Kalil is on his 3rd team, and he got enough chances here and in the league. Hurney is on his second chance, I’m not advocating giving him multiple chances just one 

I’d trust hurney to find a qb in the first over most gm in the league, only in the first however.   

Your argument was all that matters is the win/loss correct? So what does it matter who hurney signed or drafted in 2017 he was the gm of the 2017 panthers playoff team by the logic that has been on display in this thread, we can’t be subjective in one area and ignore subjective content in another area. 

Yeah...that makes absolutely no sense.

The only thing Hurney did toward building that 2017 team was the dumbass move of cutting Harrison Butker. I give him credit for benefiting from Brandon Beane's stupid move of trading for Kelvin Benjamin, but that wasn't his idea.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, hepcat said:

Bro. I’m gonna give you some advice. Mr Scot is the most stubborn poster this forum has ever seen. He knows a lot about football but he’s also wrong about a lot of things too. His wrongness is rooted in a lot more information than yours and my opinion. He hates Marty Hurney (as a GM) to the very core of his being and you will never change that opinion.

He hates him so much that he would never give him credit for drafting almost all of the franchise superstars, some who are still here today from his first tenure as GM. Or especially his second stint as GM where he’s honestly appeared to learn from his mistakes and has not only been drafting better but has been mostly responsible with his salary cap moves. 

No GM is perfect. Gettleman made some massive mistakes as Panthers GM. Most of Gettleman’s success came on the backs of players Hurney drafted. But don’t tell Mr Scot that! He will bury his face in the sand and scream Hurney is the devil until his eyes explode.

ok I’m done with this thread now

I suppose you could be more wrong, but it would take some significant effort.

There's no hate involved in thinking someone is bad at their job. By all accounts, Marty seems like a really nice guy. He's just a lousy GM.

What I see a lot of though, is people with a weak argument falling back on "oh you just hate him" because they don't have anything else to stand on. As soon as I see that argument posted, I know the person doing it has nothing of any value to say.

So again, no hatred for Marty, just the terrible job he does running the team.

I'd like to think this isn't a very difficult thing to understand, but apparently some folks just don't get it.

[Ricky Spanish]

I've voiced my opinion on this recently. I was a huge Hurney detractor the first time around, and legitimately pissed off we brought him back.

Objectively speaking though, he hasn't been horrible this second time around. A lot of the moves make sense in context even if I didn't necessarily agree with them, and he has done nothing to hamper us too badly in the long term like he had done in the past. I don't agree with a few of his draft picks, but others have been solid so far. 

However, we do have a losing record since he's had GM responsibilities again. He has never had a winning record with Rivera as a coach. Why is this? What made Gettleman and Rivera work? What makes Rivera and Hurney fail? I don't know, but I know I don't like that. 

My biggest grievance this offseason was the failure to extend both Bradberry and Shaq. Many are saying Bradberry is more egregious, but I believe not extending Shaq was the bigger misstep. Bradberry has been solid if not spectacular getting better each year, and has taken it up another notch this season. It's great to see and forward thinking would have shown he deserved a pay upgrade to keep him around. 

Shaq though, that was a miss. Shaq has shown he has the ability to play in TD's position on numerous occasions and was drafted to be the heir apparent a few years back. The huddle liked to crap on him but he was put in a position to fail numerous times over the years and not playing a true LB in the defense. He has the skills to be great and watching the tape shows that. The big whiff here though is that he is making 9 million this year. Had we extended him, we could have leveraged his low production to a smaller number over the next few years, instead we are paying him the full 9 million this year, and most likely a decent chunk next as well. 

[Mr. Scot]

19 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Using Gettlemen's Carolina records, the metric of win/loss says he's a great GM. Using Gettlemen's Giants record, the same metric says he's terrible.

When the same metric gives you two different evaluations of the same person, I think its fair to question if its the best metric to be using.

I haven't done the research, but I'd be curious to see if other examples exist of a GM having a great W/L record one place and a terrible one somewhere else. 

Not quite that simple. You do also have to consider other factors like the scouting department, the head coach and other things. Anymore I tend to evaluate GM/Head Coach combos as much as anything.

But the thing you have to remember is this...

The GM is in charge of all of those things. If the head coach isn't good, he can get another one. If the scouting department isn't doing their job, they can be replaced. That's one of the reasons why he bears the ultimate responsibility for the teams performance.

As to Gettleman in New York, I'd call it an incomplete right now. A lot of his future grade is going to ride on whether Daniel Jones is who he thinks he was.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I've voiced my opinion on this recently. I was a huge Hurney detractor the first time around, and legitimately pissed off we brought him back.

Objectively speaking though, he hasn't been horrible this second time around. A lot of the moves make sense in context even if I didn't necessarily agree with them, and he has done nothing to hamper us too badly in the long term like he had done in the past. I don't agree with a few of his draft picks, but others have been solid so far. 

However, we do have a losing record since he's had GM responsibilities again. He has never had a winning record with Rivera as a coach. Why is this? What made Gettleman and Rivera work? What makes Rivera and Hurney fail? I don't know, but I know I don't like that. 

My biggest grievance this offseason was the failure to extend both Bradberry and Shaq. Many are saying Bradberry is more egregious, but I believe not extending Shaq was the bigger misstep. Bradberry has been solid if not spectacular getting better each year, and has taken it up another notch this season. It's great to see and forward thinking would have shown he deserved a pay upgrade to keep him around. 

Shaq though, that was a miss. Shaq has shown he has the ability to play in TD's position on numerous occasions and was drafted to be the heir apparent a few years back. The huddle liked to crap on him but he was put in a position to fail numerous times over the years and not playing a true LB in the defense. He has the skills to be great and watching the tape shows that. The big whiff here though is that he is making 9 million this year. Had we extended him, we could have leveraged his low production to a smaller number over the next few years, instead we are paying him the full 9 million this year, and most likely a decent chunk next as well. 

Gettleman and Rivera had contrasting strengths and weaknesses. Hurney and Rivera are basically the same guy.

Also, many have speculated that Gettleman was more likely to tell Rivera he was wrong on something than Hurney. Marty was the same with Fox up till the end.

Ultimately, outside of a few exceptions, Marty/Ron is basically Ron.

[MasterAwesome]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I suppose you could be more wrong, but it would take some significant effort.

There's no hate involved in thinking someone is bad at their job. By all accounts, Marty seems like a really nice guy. He's just a lousy GM.

What I see a lot of though, is people with a weak argument falling back on "oh you just hate him" because they don't have anything else to stand on. As soon as I see that argument posted, I know the person doing it has nothing of any value to say.

So again, no hatred for Marty, just the terrible job he does running the team.

I'd like to think this isn't a very difficult thing to understand, but apparently some folks just don't get it.

-Continuously uses fervent, temperamental descriptors like “dumbass”, “moron”, “idiot” when describing Hurney

”I don’t hate the guy...I’m totally taking an objective, rational look at his body of work”