Kyle Allen's 4 games vs Cam's 8 with new OC Norv

[micnificent28]

4 hours ago, bull123 said:

Throw accurate passes and handoff to Mac

thats all we need him to do

and get the plays off without burning up all our timeouts  

That fine the defense will get u to the playoffs with that what about winning it

[poorboysrev]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:15 PM, micnificent28 said:

He wasn't when he lost to Cam for the MVP in 2015 and got swept by us..

[Icege]

On 10/14/2019 at 6:05 PM, ncfan said:

Allen through these 4 games

225.3 passing ypg

65.5 comp %

7/0 TD/int

1.5 rushing ypg

0 rushing TDs

6 fumbles

 

 

Cam under the same OC prior to the injury last year

236 passing ypg

67.3 comp %

15/4 TD/int

42 rushing ypg

4 rushing TDs

4 fumbles 

 

 

 

*note's to add

Cam was playing behind Clark at LT

Allen has faced the leagues, 32nd, 30th, 24th pass defenses thus far

 

[brandon_87]

On 10/14/2019 at 3:05 PM, ncfan said:

Allen through these 4 games

225.3 passing ypg

65.5 comp %

7/0 TD/int

1.5 rushing ypg

0 rushing TDs

6 fumbles

 

 

Cam under the same OC prior to the injury last year

236 passing ypg

67.3 comp %

15/4 TD/int

42 rushing ypg

4 rushing TDs

4 fumbles 

 

 

 

*note's to add

Cam was playing behind Clark at LT

Allen has faced the leagues, 32nd, 30th, 24th pass defenses thus far

 

I love how you add "notes* at the end like that matters.

 

Allen was a undrafted rookie who's never played in this league before. Cam's been in the league for years and knows what to expect and has seen it all.

 

For your "notes", maybe add in these are Allen's first ever games in the league. 

[ncfan]

8 minutes ago, brandon_87 said:

I love how you add "notes* at the end like that matters.

 

Allen was a undrafted rookie who's never played in this league before. Cam's been in the league for years and knows what to expect and has seen it all.

 

For your "notes", maybe add in these are Allen's first ever games in the league. 

Yeah because playing 2 of the bottom 3 defenses in half your games should just be ignored

[gtanaka]

On 10/14/2019 at 7:01 PM, ARSEN said:

Newton has been injury prone for 4 seasons now.  Doubt it will change in his 30s.

Tell that to Thomas davis

[brandon_87]

8 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Yeah because playing 2 of the bottom 3 defenses in half your games should just be ignored

Doesn't matter what teams your playing. He can't go out and schedule games that aren't on the schedule. The dude has come in and played good. Not great, but good enough to win every single week he's played. How many YEARS did it take Cam to get this many wins in a row? Hell, it took Cam all of his rookie season to get 6 wins...

 

I'm just saying your points are invalid. Realize that Cam isn't a fit for this team when we aren't running Shula ball. He was never a passer at Auburn and we never pushed him to be better, instead, we promoted Shula to design a college game plan to fit his strengths as an athlete, not a quarterback. You can't blame his injuries or Norv Turner, or the teams he's played... on his lack of ability. 

[ncfan]

3 minutes ago, brandon_87 said:

Doesn't matter what teams your playing. He can't go out and schedule games that aren't on the schedule. The dude has come in and played good. Not great, but good enough to win every single week he's played. How many YEARS did it take Cam to get this many wins in a row? Hell, it took Cam all of his rookie season to get 6 wins...

 

I'm just saying your points are invalid. Realize that Cam isn't a fit for this team when we aren't running Shula ball. He was never a passer at Auburn and we never pushed him to be better, instead, we promoted Shula to design a college game plan to fit his strengths as an athlete, not a quarterback. You can't blame his injuries or Norv Turner, or the teams he's played... on his lack of ability. 

Soooooo when we weren't running Shula Ball............Last year..............Running Norv ball

He had a higher completion %, more ypg, higher QBR than Allen

Look Allen has played Good, not denying it.  Hope we hold onto him

 

 

But it is Soooooookio dam easy to spot the Cam haters crawling out of the sewers, who dont think Cam at 100% is better.

[brandon_87]

2 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Soooooo when we weren't running Shula Ball............Last year..............Running Norv ball

He had a higher completion %, more ypg, higher QBR than Allen

Look Allen has played Good, not denying it.  Hope we hold onto him

 

 

But it is Soooooookio dam easy to spot the Cam haters crawling out of the sewers, who dont think Cam at 100% is better.

I'm openly a Cam hater. I wish we would have traded him. Ever since that Superbowl, he hasn't been right in the head and is always "injured" now as well. fug him.

 

And as for comparing him and Allen in norvs offense, I'm saying you put notes to make it seem like Cam needed explanation... And I'm saying add in your notes that Allen is doing this for the first time in his life. He didn't have 8 years of experience and he's still more careful throwing the ball and makes better decisions. He understands the offense and makes poo happen. He's not a world beater and I'm not crowning him as our future, but don't make it seem like Cam is better. Look at Cam's completion percentage... It only went up because he was told to start taking checkdown passes instead of forcing deeper balls. CMC had all those catches and not even 1k yards... Stats are skewed and can be made to look tailored to however you want them to if you present them the right way and don't show the full situation... I just want to see us win, and over the last few years, I've come to realize Cam is regressing and no longer even seems interested in playing with the fire he once had, where as Allen comes in just trying to prove he belongs in the league.hes hungry. 

 

Whoever gives us the best shot at consistently winning... Will always have my vote. 

[MasterAwesome]

4 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Soooooo when we weren't running Shula Ball............Last year..............Running Norv ball

He had a higher completion %, more ypg, higher QBR than Allen

Look Allen has played Good, not denying it.  Hope we hold onto him

 

 

But it is Soooooookio dam easy to spot the Cam haters crawling out of the sewers, who dont think Cam at 100% is better.

I'm excited to see what a healthy Cam can do upon his return, but I'm confused with the execution in this thread.  If your objective was to show that Cam, when healthy, can be a solid and efficient QB in this system, then you've adequately demonstrated that.  Otherwise, your stats seem to suggest that we get virtually identical production between an UFA with 5 career starts vs. an MVP-winning (since so many people like to include that) 9-year vet...but for $20 million less.  Unless that 2% higher completion and 11 ypg are worth the extra $20 mil to you.

The only significant difference between the two appears to be the rushing element, but it's a legitimate concern whether we're going to continue to realize that aspect of his game as he gets older, especially given that he's coming off a foot injury.

Allen hasn't been some world-beater to put the team on his back in any game so far...but that isn't what we've asked of him.  He does appear more than capable of running Norv's offense efficiently, and it's exciting that he's doing that right off the bat.  I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'll support whoever the coaching staff thinks gives us the best chance of winning.

[ncfan]

Just now, MasterAwesome said:

I'm excited to see what a healthy Cam can do upon his return, but I'm confused with the execution in this thread.  If your objective was to show that Cam, when healthy, can be a solid and efficient QB in this system, then you've adequately demonstrated that.  Otherwise, your stats seem to suggest that we get virtually identical production between an UFA with 5 career starts vs. an MVP-winning (since so many people like to include that) 9-year vet...but for $20 million less.  Unless that 2% higher completion and 11 ypg are worth the extra $20 mil to you.

The only significant difference between the two appears to be the rushing element, but it's a legitimate concern whether we're going to continue to realize that aspect of his game as he gets older, especially given that he's coming off a foot injury.

Allen hasn't been some world-beater to put the team on his back in any game so far...but that isn't what we've asked of him.  He does appear more than capable of running Norv's offense efficiently, and it's exciting that he's doing that right off the bat.  I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'll support whoever the coaching staff thinks gives us the best chance of winning.

It was to point out Cam's production when healthy under Norv 

Look Allen has been good

But people jump real quick to say Allen should start under 100% Cam. Several had said he has looked better than 2015 Cam

Prior to last year, it was a whole different scheme, under a whole different coach.  

So threw the numbers to shows 100% Cam was better than Allen.  This is not a Bash on Allen or his future.

Cam has been one of the top QBs in the league, there is a reason why there was a tweet saying almost a Third of the league is interested in trading for him.  He was putting up great numbers etc in this same offense 

[Varking]

20 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'm excited to see what a healthy Cam can do upon his return, but I'm confused with the execution in this thread.  If your objective was to show that Cam, when healthy, can be a solid and efficient QB in this system, then you've adequately demonstrated that.  Otherwise, your stats seem to suggest that we get virtually identical production between an UFA with 5 career starts vs. an MVP-winning (since so many people like to include that) 9-year vet...but for $20 million less.  Unless that 2% higher completion and 11 ypg are worth the extra $20 mil to you.

The only significant difference between the two appears to be the rushing element, but it's a legitimate concern whether we're going to continue to realize that aspect of his game as he gets older, especially given that he's coming off a foot injury.

Allen hasn't been some world-beater to put the team on his back in any game so far...but that isn't what we've asked of him.  He does appear more than capable of running Norv's offense efficiently, and it's exciting that he's doing that right off the bat.  I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'll support whoever the coaching staff thinks gives us the best chance of winning.

I don’t think the thread showed they have nearly identical production...

Over 16 games

Allen

3628.8 total yards

65.5% completions

28 total TDs

0 INT

24 Fumbles

 

Cam

4448 total yards

67.3% completions

38 total TDs

8 INTs

16 Fumbles

 

800 more yards and 10 more touchdowns is a massive difference if you spread these out over 16 games when comparing the stats shared here. 

 

[Asurfaholic]

I like a healthy cam better than Allen, but question if he going to make it back to healthy. No clue, don’t care to guess. For now I like what Allen is doing - the only stat that matters is W/L and so far Allen is killing that. 

 

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, Asurfaholic said:

I like a healthy cam better than Allen, but question if he going to make it back to healthy. No clue, don’t care to guess. For now I like what Allen is doing - the only stat that matters is W/L and so far Allen is killing that. 

 

Remember when the mighty Rex Grossman QB1d the Bears to the Super Bowl? Like 25 QBs that year would have likely made the Bears Super Bowl Champions. Wins and Losses are an overrated stat when it comes to QBs. Just like Wins and Losses as a Starting Pitcher in Baseball. A guy could be 20-4 in baseball with a 5.1 ERA. His team happens to score 10 runs a game so he gets wins. Another guy goes 8-10 with a 1.90 ERA. One guy clearly is superior and shows you how phony of a stat wins and losses as a player are.