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Deangelo Williams Mad at Panthers Coaching Staff

AceBoogie

By AceBoogie,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
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11 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Yep. It's by defacto Norv will have to simplify some things for Allen because of having so few starts.

Just really reiterating the obvious.

The Panthers have said that they haven't had to simplify anything for Allen.

Where the difference comes in is in the value of experience. A quarterback who's played several years has seen things so many times that it just comes naturally. A young guy is still building that knowledge base.

It's like learning a dance routine or lines for a play. The first several times you have to think through every line or every step, but with practice you eventually get it all down and you can do it without having to try so hard.

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1of10Charnatives Mentor

1of10Charnatives

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4 minutes ago, heelsnum1 said:

$495,000 (0.26% of cap) = Manage the game and let our stars win for us

$16,200,000 (12.06% of cap) = You are the star and you better win for us or we got problems

This is true but keep in mind that if we wind up going the Allen route, it will only be true for a few seasons, not his whole career. At some point he would have to be paid in line with his production at the position, and considering how important Qb is to winning, it’s not the position you want to plan to pinch pennies at long term.

Also while I like our young receivers, I think claiming we have any offensive stars other than CMC based on current production is a bit of a stretch. Neither have shown any dominant abilities that a young Qi could rely on to play conservative and win games.

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raz Newbie

raz

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9 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Even then, DeAngelo still has a point.

no he doesn't.  not at all.   not a wco, it wasn't norv it was shula, and cam didn't get hurt from running last year.   also, it stopped working after 8 games because cam's shoulder was progressively getting worse even during those first 8 games.   not 1 bit of that made any sense at all.   

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AceBoogie Mentor

AceBoogie

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17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

He said, (paraphrasing) "They asked Cam to read the defense" as if he is suggesting that Allen is not.  First of all, neither was Cam at age 23.  The center identifies the Mike, if you have not noticed and Cam would audible to a secondary play depending on the situation.  We did that in high school.  Allen does it too.  Is Cam reading the secondary and going through progressions better than Allen?  No.  Is he a beast of an athlete who can save himself from deficiencies with his arm and legs?  That is/was his bread and butter--what made him great.

Then he said, "All they are asking Kyle to do is not lose."   (I would add, that is all he has done).  This is not about equality among QBs-that Allen has to outperform Cam in Cam's areas of strength.  Nor could Cam beat out Allen in his areas of strength.  I am not impressed with DeAngelo's logic. 

Allen is not going to put the team on his back and carry them.  This offense does not require that a QB do that.   It requires that the QB get the ball out and put it in the hands that will win games for you. I said that when Norv got here, claiming that Cam is not the best fit in this system.  Why did we hire Norv and not a coach with a system more aligned with Cam's skill set?  Because he and Ron are buddies and trust in the coaching circles goes a long way.

We transitioned from big WRs who could catch high passes to small, game breakers who need the ball in stride immediately after the break.  Cam is not that QB, even though he did a good job with it before getting hurt. 

Kyle Allen makes about $500k per year.

Cam Newton makes about $500k per week.

Apples and oranges in every sense of the word.  I think we are going to move on from Cam, and if we do not, it will hurt the franchise long term (just guessing that Cam's future will not be as bright as his past).  It is sad, but I am not blaming Cam---I blame RR for playing Cam hurt.  Maybe this is premature, but I do not sense a normal situation. 

If

Mr. MHS831, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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ellis Proficient

ellis

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It was a captain obvious take. He’s basically saying Kyle Allen can’t run the read option, which he probably can’t and shouldn’t. He saying that the coaches are dumbing down the offense for an undrafted second yr quarterback. Which they absolutely should. He is also saying that they run a WCO. Which is unequivocally false. Max Kellerman tried to raise the point of Cam’s injury last year, and DW steamrolled right past it like he did to every defense in 2008.

I just watched this clip earlier. He seems to be very angry about something, but he’s having a very hard time articulating what exactly it is he’s mad about, and moreover, he’s offering absolutely no solutions other than to complain. 

I don’t hate DW. He was amazing to watch in his prime. I didn’t even mind all the post Panthers anger from his in. That’s his own world, and that’s his business. But he literally just got on national television and gushed incoherent hot takes from a fire hose. 

If you want to put the blame on anybody for Cam taking a beating over the years, Ron Rivera and Mike Shula would be two good people to start with. Not to mention, Newton plays the game that way because he THRIVES off it. He enjoys getting into a rhythm. He feeds off that energy. He does not want to sit back 30 times in the pocket.

Has DW even spoken to Cam about these issues? I mean that would be a good place to start, having a true inside line into the vibe and pulse of the locker room. Specifically, the quarterback room. From the people I’ve talked to, and I know a few, the quarterback room is rock solid right now. 

I don’t like this notion that Turner is doing something bad to Newton. Quite the contrary. He has done tremendous work reinventing parts of his game, enhancing his intermediate reads and throws while peppering in just the right amount of quarterback runs. 

Had TJ Watt not set a bomb off in Cam’s shoulder, we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. There was some wear and tear before that, but he could’ve played effectively thru that.  

If I got on national television and ranted about Norv Turner’s WCO not being friendly for a running QB, all the while not grasping that they don’t run a West Coast offense, I would be run out of town, rightfully so. 
 

 

 

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AceBoogie Mentor

AceBoogie

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3 minutes ago, raz said:

no he doesn't.  not at all.   not a wco, it wasn't norv it was shula, and cam didn't get hurt from running last year.   also, it stopped working after 8 games because cam's shoulder was progressively getting worse even during those first 8 games.   not 1 bit of that made any sense at all.   

Another false narrative that simply isn’t true. Cam was still performing at a high level well past week 8 last year. 

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AceBoogie Mentor

AceBoogie

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4 minutes ago, ellis said:

It was a captain obvious take. He’s basically saying Kyle Allen can’t run the read option, which he probably can’t and shouldn’t. He saying that the coaches are dumbing down the offense for an undrafted second yr quarterback. Which they absolutely should. He is also saying that they run a WCO. Which is unequivocally false. Max Kellerman tried to raise the point of Cam’s injury last year, and DW steamrolled right past it like he did to every defense in 2008.

I just watched this clip earlier. He seems to be very angry about something, but he’s having a very hard time articulating what exactly it is he’s mad about, and moreover, he’s offering absolutely no solutions other than to complain. 

I don’t hate DW. He was amazing to watch in his prime. I didn’t even mind all the post Panthers anger from his in. That’s his own world, and that’s his business. But he literally just got on national television and gushed incoherent hot takes from a fire hose. 

If you want to put the blame on anybody for Cam taking a beating over the years, Ron Rivera and Mike Shula would be two good people to start with. Not to mention, Newton plays the game that way because he THRIVES off it. He enjoys getting into a rhythm. He feeds off that energy. He does not want to sit back 30 times in the pocket.

Has DW even spoken to Cam about these issues? I mean that would be a good place to start, having a true inside line into the vibe and pulse of the locker room. Specifically, the quarterback room. From the people I’ve talked to, and I know a few, the quarterback room is rock solid right now. 

I don’t like this notion that Turner is doing something bad to Newton. Quite the contrary. He has done tremendous work reinventing parts of his game, enhancing his intermediate reads and throws while peppering in just the right amount of quarterback runs. 

Had TJ Watt not set a bomb off in Cam’s shoulder, we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. There was some wear and tear before that, but he could’ve played effectively thru that.  

If I got on national television and ranted about Norv Turner’s WCO not being friendly for a running QB, all the while not grasping that they don’t run a West Coast offense, I would be run out of town, rightfully so. 
 

 

 

We know exactly what he’s mad about. 

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ellis Proficient

ellis

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And sadly, because I feel like I have to add this caveat, I am a Newton guy. He is the franchise.

These shows exist to generate nothing but heat. Nobody learned anything useful from that show.

If you flip around and see this on the chyron....run. Run far far away. There’s no controversy.

 

 

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