Drafting "tweener" players

[hepcat]

I was looking through the last two drafts, and noticed a trend. The Panthers have been drafting "tweener" type players that might not have a specific position on the team. The Panthers drafted 5 "tweener" players out of 8 possible picks in rounds 1-4 in 2018-2019.

I understand rolling the dice on these types of players in the later rounds, but especially in the first and second round you should be getting guys that can start every down at a certain position. 

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2018:

Round 2: Donte Jackson. Donte played all over the secondary in college but likely fit best as a nickelback, although Ron Rivera never seemed to play him there. His size lends him to be a nickel but his speed puts him as a good fit on the outside. I still don't think he's found a comfortable position.

Round 3: Rashaan Gaulden. Gaulden was tried out as a safety, but never seemed to fit at any position and now he's not even on the team. 

Round 4: Marquis Haynes. Another "tweener" type player that isn't quite a LB or DE. Haynes looked to fit in as an OLB in the 3-4 scheme and had a few nice plays, but his future on the team might be in doubt if the team moves back to the 4-3.

2019:

Round 1: Brian Burns. On the surface, this looked like a home run pick. A speedy edge rusher that would fit nicely into Ron Rivera's new 3-4 scheme. And early returns are positive, with Burns racking up 7.5 sacks in his rookie year. But, for a first round player, you want a guy who can play every down. Is Burns that guy? He is a liability in the run game due to his lean frame, and might not have a position in the 4-3 defense. 

Round 4: Christian Miller. This is basically a mirror image of the Brian Burns pick. Another "tweener" OLB/DE player that doesn't have the build to play the run in the 4-3 defense. 

 

[Tbe]

On defense at least, NE and the stealers have been doing this for a few years. It allows them to confuse offenses since you can’t predict at any given time who is the “safety”, who is the “corner” etc.

Ron was trying to do the same.

[Pantha-kun]

I'm pretty sure that's not just a Hurney thing either. Gettleman drafted CMC , Samuel who were RB/WR combos and prob some others as well. Might count Funchess b/c I think he was a TE in college and played WR here. KB was basically a TE that didn't block even though he played WR. 

[DubE_4MR]

In 2017 and 2018, we lacked athleticism on defense and were unable to matchup with high powered passing offenses. The Saints 3-0 sweep exposed a lot of mismatches on our defense. In 2018, the pass rush was non-existent.  So they went smaller and faster but now the run defense suffered.

[Pantha-kun]

Just now, DubE_4MR said:

In 2017 and 2018, we lacked athleticism on defense and were unable to matchup with high powered passing offenses. The Saints 3-0 sweep exposed a lot of mismatches on our defense. In 2018, the pass rush was non-existent.  So they went smaller and faster but now the run defense suffered.

thats actually a pretty good assessment. They tried to fix different things every year but never managed to get it all together. 

[LinvilleGorge]

They're called tweeners when they don't work out and versatile when they do 

[Pantha-kun]

I think we just have to admit the defense isn't going to be fixed in one offseason/season. There's just too many problems and too much change in scheme/coaches and players. 

The offense might be decent if we have a good healthy QB and replace 1 or 2 Olinemen with better players, that's not a whole lot to ask. We have decent WRs, decent TE, and a great RB. 

On the defense we might end up with just Burns, Shaq, Donte,  with a bunch of new free agents and draft picks  otherwise. 

[Snake]

It would be down right stupid to move to the 4-3 if you want to be a good defense in 5 years. We have 3 outside rushers perfect for a 3-4 base. The reason we failed so horribly last year was because we were using 3-4 personal to play 4-3 down and then we pulled our talent to play sole 4-3 mid season. The Rivera "hybrid" System was a total failure. He should have just stuck to one or the other. 

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Snake said:

It would be down right stupid to move to the 4-3 if you want to be a good defense in 5 years. We have 3 outside rushers perfect for a 3-4 base. The reason we failed so horribly last year was because we were using 3-4 personal to play 4-3 down and then we pulled our talent to play sole 4-3 mid season. The Rivera "hybrid" System was a total failure. He should have just stuck to one or the other. 

I don't think you build your entire defensive philosophy around one rookie who showed promise and another rookie and young player who were essentially mid-late round flier picks. That seems dumb.

[Wes21]

3-4 vs 4-3 is an outdated subject.  A majority of snaps are played in sub packages these days.  That's where you make your money.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Wes21 said:

3-4 vs 4-3 is an outdated subject.  A majority of snaps are played in sub packages these days.  That's where you make your money.

A lot of truth to this. Nickel is the base formation in today's NFL.

[Soul Rebel]

Agree with Wes and also that Nickel is the preferred base lately. Why wouldn't you consider a unicorn at 7 in a Derwin James type that can lineup at LB but roam like a SAF. 

[frash.exe]

and because of that you effectively need three starting cornerbacks 

which makes the fact that ron and hurney decided to try to develop gaulden at nickel an even bigger joke than it initially sounds

[Wes21]

7 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

Agree with Wes and also that Nickel is the preferred base lately. Why wouldn't you consider a unicorn at 7 in a Derwin James type that can lineup at LB but roam like a SAF. 

I remember when Joey Bosa came out the Chargers were running a 3-4.  They took Bosa and he questioned it.  They basically told him "don't worry about it, we'll be in subpackages a majority of the time anyways."  They took the talented player and didn't let the 3-4 vs 4-3 debate influence it.

The following year they flipped back to a 4-3, but this time Bosa with his experience in the 3-4 the year before says:

“It’s getting back to what I played in college in a 4-3 scheme. It’s not too huge of a change just like changing to a 3-4 last year, I thought it was going to be a big deal and it wasn’t too crazy. I think it’s been going great,” Bosa said.

Ultimately, Bosa said, his job is the same: Go get the quarterback.

“It’s not huge. Last year I really saw myself in the game a lot in sub package, which was a 4-3 defense, the 5-technique and 6-technique. So it’s not a huge difference. You won’t see me down in the 3-technique as much as I was last year, but it’s mostly just stay outside, contain the defense and get to the quarterback,” Bosa said.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/14/joey-bosa-says-3-4-or-4-3-is-no-big-difference/